PM supplements (Pueraria Mirifica)

[Justagirl💃]

Quoted from a friend:

"I was not sure  whether your questions re PM were just out of interest or you were possibly going to pass info on to others on fora that you may be active on .

Reiterating:

Highly concentrated versions even at  dosages 2000mg+ daily when tried some years ago did work  but were slow and limited when I tried some years back. No effects noted other than in the breast.

This year natural product, 1000mg daily for 1 week followed by 500mg daily.
This produced noticeable breast symptoms within 3 days which was uncomfortable to the borders of pain.
Subsequently fat distribution and some loss of muscle size and tone were noticeable.

I am aware you are on sites with the whole spectrum of AMAB individuals, some of whom will be macho males who also like having breasts.
The bit I didn't mention, and might be a deal breaker for this group of folk is that even more noticeable are changes in the genital area with testes atrophying and becoming very soft.
I my case this was to the extent that when wearing low rise bikini panties the testes would completely recede into the inguinale canal with no real help from me.
Penile length reduced by around 70% and would invert into its own skin and to all intents and purposes disappear into the abdomen suprapubically. Libido  was v v low(non existent)
Rosemary and I  have learned to be very inventive. What happens in the mind is now far more important and satisfying to both of us.
Others might find themselves frustrated and wives instigating divorce proceedings.

Shared in the interest of full disclosure and help to others you may"

[WPW717]

Until a low dose Estrogen patch was prescribed I used PM to ease the massive hot flashes. It worked. 
 As stated above those effects and symptoms are very real.

I found the trade off worthwhile as the flashes were so strong they would cause the sweat to short out my hearing aid batteries frequently. I felt like I was on fire.

[Justagirl💃]

I plan on going on estrogen patches when I move to oregon. Trying to get them from my current doctor is an impossibility.

[WPW717]

Took almost 2 years to convince mine that it  ushould be the thing to do… 2 problems solved with one Rx. Hot flashes they and osteopenia. Testosterone wasn’t recommended for me for many reasons.

I hope they begin the patch soon for you. It shifted me more towards normal in 2 months, didn’t help the osteoporosis as it was too little too late.

[Justagirl💃]

I already have the start of osteoporosis, So getting started on the patch Is essential.

[taxmapper]

Estrogen is a critical part of bone health. Men HAVE to have it.  otherwise the bones get brittle and breakages are common. 

The over abundance is what causes the breast growth.   Adding in progesterone is what gives definition.  This is the odd part with me. Mine are perky and the ladies around me keep giving me the 'shut up bitch" response. 

[JKing]

Caution using PM. Cardiologists have noted that PM greatly increases the risk of AFIB. 

[WPW717]

Hadn’t run into that in all my reading. Didn’t experience it for the  many months I  took it at a fairly stiff dose. Curious as to your source, I am surprised I missed it.

[Traveler]

I don’t take it, yet, for osteoporosis but I have read about it and find no source for cardiac issues. DVT in some cases but that’s the only real downer I’ve found.

[taxmapper]

I have used PM and in actuality and ironically to lower blood pressure.  The end result was less that but there are some distinct issues here. One being that it caused me great headaches over 1000 mg.  Also the origin and brand is specific.  if you do, go with a high quality brand given possible other effects. 

Now, is there an effect on the body? Yes. But medically its tiny in comparison to clinical levels.  The actual amount is PM is substantially less than clinical production. dosage you use should be carefully considered and moreover not only caution in one regard, but other regards. Read thourgholy on the effects and contradictions.  Ill be honest. Breast development is really subject to several factors including genetic, estrogen levels and PROGESTERONE.  

There are other parts involved as well.   

Everyone is different, proceed with awareness. 

[gotgyne]

I don’t take it, yet, for osteoporosis but I have read about it and find no source for cardiac issues. DVT in some cases but that’s the only real downer I’ve found.

A DVT (deep vein thrombosis) is a serious illness. It may lead to a PE (pulmonary embolism) that can be fatal. And even not so, it is possible that your venous valves are damaged after it and you have to wear a medical compression stocking until the rest of your life.

Meanwhile quite a few plastic surgeons offer breast aumentation also for males, who just want bigger breasts. Mine are large enough, thus I don't need it. But otherwise I'd consider it.

[Parity]

I'm not real familiar with that medication.  Is it used and prescribed to treat a specific problem?  From what I read its side affects may not be what some would want.  Others, seeking additional breast growth sounds like a side affect they might enjoy.  Is osteoporosis some thing I should question my Dr about?

[JKing]

Hadn’t run into that in all my reading. Didn’t experience it for the  many months I  took it at a fairly stiff dose. Curious as to your source, I am surprised I missed it.

While it can be beneficial, like anything there are often side effects.  Doctors (cardiologists in particular) have commented on PM being a factor. See link for one case study.  A full study has yet to be done because it isn't a common side effect. 
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/joa3.12576

[Justagirl💃]

I'm not real familiar with that medication.  Is it used and prescribed to treat a specific problem?  From what I read its side affects may not be what some would want.  Others, seeking additional breast growth sounds like a side affect they might enjoy.  Is osteoporosis some thing I should question my Dr about?

Estrogen patches are best for osteoporosis.  Ask your doctor about those.

[WPW717]

JKing, saw the link, thanks.
 
My initial thoughts were the main cause of this is a new understanding of genetic causes. The mapping and understanding of what are called ( VUS ) variations of unknown significance are coming to light rapidly. But given the incredible number of possible sequences in the human genome it will be a long time until it’s complete.

Going through one myself now. They have only mapped the ones that are suspect in my clinical presentation. The unknowns are multiplying. The clinical presentation of MEN Syndrome is not solidified by genetics. There is now a research push to understand this syndrome with new genes not previously considered. They were not included in in my first 2 gene tests.  They want more now , this is an expensive proposition & it needs to be done by a research facility. Moved to Tennessee to get closer to Bethesda.
There’s a push to define a condition called MEN 5. My friend a retired doc never heard of this & he was an Endo.

The article speaks to the obvious re the Pueraria Mirificans but I wonder the depth to which the explored the QT interval issue with dietary components. For example, some seltzers & tonic water like Schweppes prolong the QT interval significantly. They contain quinine.

It’s been over 8 years since I reviewed EKGs, and my vision isn’t what it once was but the strips I looked at looked more like SVT / VT than Torsades. 

I never found this when I was researching PM. Nice catch by you. I would have paid attention to this if it was to be found. My use predates the paper.