Surgery on steroids

[pumpseeker]

hypo-
I also forgot to tell you that I am not an expert and nor do I claim to be one unlike you who reads allot of bullshit and cuts and paste it on boards like this one. Knowledge is powerful when it is based on pure fact. You cannot prove half the crap that you post and a small medical study does not make it a medical fact. propecia is a safe drug and I would bet that the only people that have problems with it are girls like you who probably would have Sexual problems without it. I am tired of you posting bad shit about it on this board.Anytime anyone asks about it you have to reply and say stay away from it. thats a bunch of crap

[Spleen]

Pumpseeker, you're out of line man.  Maybe you want to start a flame war?  Why?  You should walk a mile in Hypo's shoes and we'd see how "manly" you are.  Hypo has a tendency towards the "evangelistic" when it comes to hormonal causes for gyne, but he is well-informed and comes from a place of experience.

[pumpseeker]

Spleen I agree there is no need for a flame war. i just hate it when a board is cluttered with one members opinion. I just dont want people to post a question and have Hypo post and give misleading info based only on his expierences and readings. There is not enough people that post on this board to even things out

[vaio]

lol please don't start on hypo. He will argue back and fourth with you for days. Your post will be ruined. Just tell him not to reply on your post if you don't want to hear him. Insulting him makes him crazy.

Peace



Read this post...http://www.gynecomastia.org/cgi-bin/gyne_yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=1110078448

you will get my drift...

[hypo]

First of all pumpseeker,

You have no knowledge whatsoever as to who I am.

I developed hypogonadism post puberty as a result of chemotherapy.

So I do not suffer from the lack of masculine issues that you have referred to.

However I do know people who do have such issues and they are no less men or important people (you make me ill with anger saying such things) and your comments show you up for what you are- an ignorant person who is all too ready to attack those that do not exists within your limited validated sub-culture.

A man is more than a body!!

I asked you to present your position in full that refutes what I have had to say.

Can you please do so?

Or as I said SHUT UP!!!

Come on what is the problem?

You previously pushed forward your credentials with regards to your knowledge in this field, now I see you are running backwards.  Nevertheless, please enlightenus with your forward thinking ideas:)

Please show us the value of your knowledge and wisdom.

And then wait for me to make you look a fool and rip every single thing you have to say apart from a scientific point of view.

For one reason only!

So that people don’t buy into your dangerous misinformation.  

I’m guessing that you are another typical jack the lad who thinks he knows his substances, but at the same time has no real knowledge at all of the hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular-axis, related hormones, pathology, the male endocrine system or related effects.

But hey tell me I am wrong and explain all.

Again as I say, present your position in full that refutes what I have had to say (given what I am saying is  rubbish)……do that or……… SHUT UP!!

There are many, many men worldwide and many men on this site that have suffered from the affects of propecia.  I have already included a report indicating the issues with propeica from Eugene Shippen one of the most important specialists in male endocrine issues in the world.

In fact he has appeared as a genetic expert in all the top body builder magazines.  But I guess he is wrong and you are right........ yes?


Quote
you can stop the conversion of test to estrogen by using Anti Es like Nolvades, arimidex,letrozole, and femera. Just make sure to keep using your Anti Es during your PCT after you are done your cycles for about  4 weeks.
Unquote

First of all it is called Nolvadex not Nolvades.  

Secondly whilst Nolvadex (the brand name for Tamoxifen- something else you didn’t know) is an anti estrogen, the other drugs you mentioned are not anti estrogens but aromatize inhibitors and work in an entirely different way from anti estrogens.

Thirdly your cycle information is ludicrously simplistic, because you have no idea as to the ‘individual hormonal chemistry set’ that each man has and you have no conception or understanding of endocrine mechanisms involved.

Quote
I know I am a new member but I am a Moderator on a couple Of AS boards and also on a Hair loss board. That is why I am tired of hearing Hypos unproven remarks on Propecia
Unquote

I want you to talk from your experience and detail your reasoning.


Vaio- I don’t hold grudges and helped you out recently, you could understand that and respect this?

P.S

If I seem evangelical I apologise, if I seem up my own ass I apologise.  

The way I go about things is sometimes poor.

But I am just doing my best to ensure people get to see endocrinologists, get pathology prior to surgery, get the best advice- know what is out there in terms of treatment etc  

I do my best and I try to ensure that all the information I provide is substantiated and quality.  If there is any problem with any of it, I want to know, just as any one else would.

You can detail any such problems via this post or via PM and I will appreciated that.

[downsbs]

Ouch!

[pumpseeker]

Hypo I aplogize becuase I thought you were a man not a want to be man that hides behind books nad Medical Papers. I bet you were the kid that was shoved in the lockers at school and were forced to some type of excile into your books. Please do not judge me based on my knowledge becuase I base my opinions on my real life expiernces unlike you who just reads medical journals.

My knowledge of Steroids(for bodybuilding purposes) and Gyne is at a level way above yours becuase I have life experince with the subject. I bet the only bodybuilders that you know are the ones that used to beat you up. I am sorry that i mispelled Novalex which is old news . Most people are using Letrozole and Arimidex.

PS  Are you a want to be MD?
     I am sorry that Pup-culture had judged you as a failure.

[hypo]

You couldn't answer a god darned thing so you resorted to all you had left- base insults.

Well done- i'll leave you to it.

[vaio]

Hypo, stop right now.

[pumpseeker]

hey hypo you did not answer my questiom. Are you a Doctor(MD)

Why do you try to sound like one ?

How come you did not become a Doctor(were you too poor or stupid)?

Do you have any intials after your name?

Let the real doctors answer the Endo questios(for everyones sake)

PS -
Do you actually understand all the info that you cut and paste from the REAL DOCTORS Journal? Maybe thats why you cant explain it to people in a way where the average person can understand it.

[vaio]

Hypo has no medical education. Hes suppositly a computer programmer.

[jc71]

pump - you've got what, 9 posts, and they're all critisizing hypo.  Enough already, move on man.

[hypo]

Because of my own hormone problem, the many endocrinologists I have spoken with, the many books I have read on the subject, the many pathologies I have seen and the many sufferers I have spoken to etc

I have a very good laymans understanding of male reproductive endocrinology.

I don't diagnose or treat anyone; I simply offer support and information.

That is something you will find is the case on many support sites.

e.g. The American Hemochromatosis Society is run by a very knowledgeable nice lady who whilst not being a qualified doctor, does great work to help sufferers of that condition.    

You see this is a support site  

Instead of mooching about this site insulting people why don't you do something productive with your time, whether that is offering support or sharing your experiences etc.

If you cannot do anything positive I would suggest leaving, which would be more positive than continuing in this vain.

[pumpseeker]

Hypo , lets sum this up. You admit that you are not a doctor so thats out of the way. The problem that I have if someone asks a question about Propecia you come on and say stay away from it just because you have spoken to a few doctors or read a journal. This is such a small board that one persons opinion can greatly effect the community. Opinions that cannot be proven should be stated just as opinions. If I were you I would show both sides of the arguement and just present the facts. Propecia side effects do include Gyne but only in less then half a perecent which is very small. Most trained professionals came to the same conclusion that the test subjects that developed Gyne probably had it before the started taking the drug. Also the side effects are very low but like anything else you always hear about the bad things because people who are happy dont watse their time on message boards.

Give people both sides of the story. Show people where to find the info they need do not force feed them with the opions of a few people you know

[hypo]

If you open your eyes and just look around this site/do a search of past threads here alone, you will find dozens of people that have developed gynecomastia or hypogonadism from the use of Propecia.

Propecias principle ingredient was and still is used to combat prostate cancer.

It lowers the male hormones testosterone and particularly dihydrotestosterone.

One of the best endocrinologists in the US and the world states;

Finisteride (propecia-Proscar)    
From: Eugene Shippen, M. D.    
Date: 5/15/01    
Time: 3:42:23 PM    
Remote Name: 152.163.195.186    
   
   
Comments    
I have become aware of a growing number of young men who started to take propecia for male pattern baldness. After relatively short intervals these men develop full symptoms of hypogonadism: decreased libido, sexual dysfunction, ED, fatigue, gynecomastia and depression. Testing shows low T and DHT, high E2, low or normal FSH/LH and normal prolactin. What is really troubling is the lack of response to T replacement, clomiphene stimulation, HCG injections. There may be significant increase in T after various methods of increasing it, but the response in all areas seems to be lacking entirely! If anyone has patients with these complaints after finisteride, please let me know as I am collecting case histories of this serious, though uncommon problem. Also, anyone who has had success with treatment, let me know at: ershippen@aol.com.  
Unquote  

Below is a link to a site of someone who has suffered the results of what Dr Shippen spoke of.  

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/  

A further link form this mans site is a yahoo site dedicated to men across the world who have suffered and continue to suffer from the effects of propecia.

If you want to bury your head in the sand go ahead, I am not and I will continue to put this information out there so that people can know the dangers.

The percentage that you have spoken of that suffer from the effects of Propecia and Proscar is a figure put out by the pharmaceutical company that manufactures the drug- Merk.  

In the absence of any independent studies into the real numbers, no one can say what the real figure is.  What I can say is that I have come across a considerable number of people who have suffered terribly from its effects.

I do not think for one second that a drug that was meant to treat prostate cancer by chemically castrating the male, a drug that lowers male hormones and can cause hormone problems should be on the market for the sake of retaining hair.

You can say my opinion doesn't matter, but when one on the world’s most eminent endocrinologists has stated his concerns and when the physical facts are that people are continuing to pop up all the time stating that they have developed problems following the use of propecia.....well that is harder to dismiss.

I have nothing more to say on the matter.  You have my reasoning, you can disagree with it, but I believe I am doing the right thing so my actions will remain the same.

P.S

Since you have been here have you actually offered anything of any worth in the way of support?   Any fool can burn a barn, anyone can go negative and sling mud, and it isn’t possible to defend a negative is it?  Why don’t you do something productive on the site and actually help people?