Testosterone Therapy Update

[matthew1]

update
  I started Testosterone Replacement Therapy about 2 weeks ago.  I  hired a company that knows about hormones, thats all they do. After   tons of tests,  it turns out my testosterone was  low,  estradiol was high, and free T3 was low.
    I started a regimen of testosterone cream, Arimedix tablets  to block estrogen, and T3 Capsules. Also  am taking  some great suppliments they gave me.  Super adrenal stress formula   and  EPA DHA  extra strenth.
  What  this all means is I found the  REASON for my  gyne tissue  build up via the tests. My gyne will not go away [ I   have  fatty  puffy nipples, but thet stick out and  inch], I  FEEL  much better and  through excersice I think some of this pesky belly  fat will fo away finally.
          I  can say  Bodylogicmd company has  a good  doc in VA, I went to 2 other doctors   [both endos] and they  did not even order the correct tests!
 simply testing for  testosterone level is useless,  you must get the  bigger picture   to diagnose hormone issue.
              I am 45  ,   and I feel like  i will finally  get the  body I want where I can take of my shirt in public!!!
            I am reading  a valuable book called  Adrenal Stress syndrome  by DR Wilson and I highly suggest  you all get it.
              I am no health nut, I  am a   strip steak on the grill , potato, salad with blue cheese dressing  guy but I  can tell you  knowledge on hormones and  adrenal glands  is   the key to  good  health and a fit look.
                    Please feel free to ask me any questions

[mizuno]

How much is this test ? And is it a nationwide company?
I'am 50/50 regarding the testing of hormones. But, I want like to know for sure.

[matthew1]

 to mizuno and c17....
         The company bodylogicmd is supposedly nationwide,  they reall just have affiliations with  doctors in spotty locations around the country. Bodylogicmd is  just the  organizer and scheduler, they have the doctosr schedules in front of them, go to bodylogicmd  to read up on them.
 costs...
            I had a battery of test done by my  primary doctor, they were covered by  my HMO insurance,  my  primary doc ordered an incomplete  battery of test and saw  no problems  with the results he got. [ he was wrong]
    I went to and endo  doc and got more tests ,  again  he saw  no issues with gyne or  hormones.
  I went to bodylogicmd, they  did   repeat tests of the other two  docs  plus additional  tests  like estradiol  and free t3 . Turns out my hormones  were way off, way to hi on estradiol  low on testosterone.
      COSTS
          The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.
 Meds  were covered  by insurance  less  copays. They  supliments are not covered and they are  pricey.
          Frankly, I do not  really care about the cost. I am fortunate  I can  pay for what ever I  want. I am self employed and  buy my  own insurance for me and my family at $1,100 per month. I may  switch insurances  next year to   a carrier  that lets me  go  do doctors I  want,    PPO  insurance allows that, it cost more  per month  but I will see  if it is cost  effective.
                  You must realize I quit  alcohol  and a  nicotine addiction  2 1/2 years ago [ 60 pieces of nicorette gum a day  for 11 years and  I chewed  tobacco 15 years  before that]  so the  money I save there  pays for  this hormone related  treatment.
         I am attempting to treat my  body like a temple , and the  temple needs a  remoldeling job  so that what I am doing.
         Let me  be  honest here,  I have  been  sooooo  self conscience about my puffy nipple for 30 years  that I am now  facing up to  what I need to  do. I have a beach house  and  do not take my shirt off. 
                        I am excersicing like a never have done before,  these hormones will help loose  the  stuburn belly  fat that  many off  us men get,  weight training  and  eliptycal  training are toning me  up. Once I loose some weight I  will get  nipples  worked on by dr maggassey  here in the   md / wash dc area.
              I really  feel there is light at the end of the  tunnel.  My goal is to go on my new tritoon  boat   shirtless this summer, and go swimming with my kids  in the ocean. I am sick of two  pocket  shirts.
             I  have spent over 62,000 in nicorrete  gum  over  a 11  year period!!!
  11 years at $110 per week is $62,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! plus easily that much on  booze in the same  time period!!!!!!!
    I think it is  time to  spend money on positive  things to  help me like  gyne surgury and  and  TRT .
         I have hid my  condition way to long   time to   fix it. I went  four years of  high school sports without  showering in front of others guys!!!!   try doing that without getting  harrased .

       One more thing, I use a daily  cream form of testosterone , once  my optimal  testosterone is reached a will go with a  testosterone  seed implant  every 6 months. Now remember, excess testosterone get convert to estrogen leading to gyne,  that can be   averted  with a estrogen blocker called  Arimidex.
             
         
         T
               

[matthew1]

AVG
   taking  testosterone in itself  without monitoring  estradiol can lead to gynecomastia and other  issues.  Also taking the cream  daily for long term is foolish,  they  make  ''seeds''  that they implant that  last 6 month and deliver estrogen  slowly and consistently
. Generally the cream is used  shorterm to   figure out what  strength  you need , in other words the creams strength can be alter at every  order untill optimal testosterone levels are reached, they implant the ''seed''
           BTW ''any  clinic''  as you stated  around here   are for folks with no insurance or money,  I go to paid specialists

[matthew1]

I have no doubt that taking these hormone supplements and medications will prevent your gyno, but aside from the cost aren't you worried about side effects?

The estrogen blocker Arimedix has significant dangers.

And once on a regimine of external testosterone supplements you're pretty muched forced to continue it for life, or so I've heard. Since your pituitary stops sending FSH and LH out to your testicles causing them to atrophy. This is why people who take steroids get shrunken balls.

     


 I am not taking these medications to  prevent gyne, I already have pronounced puffy  nipples  that will need  surgery to correct. The gyne is  from a lifetime of lower testosterone and higher estradiol
            I am on testosterone  treatments  because my testosterone is low. I am taking these medications because my body  is not doing it on  its own in optimal levels.
     I take thyroid  medication for life  already, taking   synthetic  synthroid saves my life!  If I need additional testosterone to function optimally  then so be it. Once  proper  hormone level are figured out, I will have a testosterone  seed implanted every six months, thats easy enough.
                 As far as my speed  bag shrinking , I can tell you that  my libido is much improved with the testosterone treatment already.
             I am taking these medications out of medical neccessity , there is bound to be some side effects,  but overall it is a net gain

[rockin813]

The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.
 Meds  were covered  by insurance  less  copays. They  supliments are not covered and they are  pricey.

WOW!  I can almost guarantee you that if you were patient and found a physician/endo who would work with you, you'd be able to get these labs drawn by them under your HMO.

How valid is this company?  Do you put a lot of faith in them cuz they told you what you wanted to hear..that ur hormones are whacked and that you'll feel better if you take 'this'.  Is their creme FDA approved?

You should join the Yahoo Group Hypogonidism2.  It's all about low T and everyone on their has their TRT regimen along with ways to fight off Estradiol (armidex, tamoxifen, DIM, etc).
I was on there for a while until i found my underlying cause of low T.  TRT made me feel like shit.

Tell them Jack Evans sent you.

GL

[matthew1]

The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.
 Meds  were covered  by insurance  less  copays. They  supliments are not covered and they are  pricey.

WOW!  I can almost guarantee you that if you were patient and found a physician/endo who would work with you, you'd be able to get these labs drawn by them under your HMO.

How valid is this company?  Do you put a lot of faith in them cuz they told you what you wanted to hear..that ur hormones are whacked and that you'll feel better if you take 'this'.  Is their creme FDA approved?

You should join the Yahoo Group Hypogonidism2.  It's all about low T and everyone on their has their TRT regimen along with ways to fight off Estradiol (armidex, tamoxifen, DIM, etc).
I was on there for a while until i found my underlying cause of low T.  TRT made me feel like shit.

Tell them Jack Evans sent you.

GL

  yes the creme is approved.

 also ,  my hmo did  pay  for the tests, twice mater of fact, i  paid 500 for a third  round of test to  verify  the  first two sets. all came to the same  conclusion
  you have to be the first to feel poorly on TRT

I do take arimidex BTW

I talked to  a half dozen   endo  before I chose  this  doctor.

[rockin813]

The tests  and other things with bodylogicmd were 500 dollars about.  My initial  visit to the doctor was 375 . Future  visits  to monitor    hormone levels is $275  every 4 or so months. These cost are  out of pocket, HMO 's do not reimburse out of network costs.

These costs are ridiculously high...and should be covered under HMO with a Dr in your network.  I bet this Dr is not covered by any networks. 

As for me being the first to feel poorly on TRT...nope.  Go to Hypogonadism2 forum on yahoo groups.  You will get a lot of good info.

[matthew1]

  the cost not high IMO. HMOs do not  cover out of network doctors.
I went to   TWO network doctors and  they ordered incomplete tests   .One was an endocronologist
 Most doctors  are clueless on  how to test, read, diagnose hormone issues, even simple ones like thyroid  issues.
 The  HMO  doc  looked at testosterone level alone, that enough  is incomplete.
 My hmo pays for the meds.
          Not everyone is fortunate  like  me to have the   funds to pay for quality services,  I understand.
   Realize this,  my  hormones were not in  the optimal ranges [ actually  far from  them], and I intend on correcting this  problem.
         My  hugely puffy  nipples were a direct result from my estradiol level  and my testosterone level,

[ThatMethD1guy]

I am also on HRT for a couple of months now. I was anemic and had some T scores in the low range, but this was all after a while on propecia. It is worth noting that A conventional endro thought my scores were acceptable and that the anemia could be cured with an iron supplement (point being that if the hormone doctor indicates that scores are low, this is based on their bias i think as well as the traditional endros being biased the other way)

I am trying to remain objective, but gave the HRT a shot because I was also tired and miserable as well as other things.

I am on allot of hormones now  and do feel better but, its tough to know which thing is the operative thing .....or is it simply stopping propecia that has helped? I don't know. I am not on any estrogen blocker, nor do have fantasies about any of this reversing the gyno (i will get surgery for that I guess)

I am on testostorine cream, hcg, hgh, adrenal supplimnnet, DHEA thyroid, cortisol, and chelating for mercury with dsmg

There seems to be allot  of disagreement out there about this controversial area of medicine and it is all QUITE expensive ($800 for my first batch of stuff and $1700 for the second batch...insurance covers some of the doctors fess, all of the lab work, some of the hormones, none of the supplements.

Anyone with any specific info about all of this? I see alot of general statements regarding negative possibilites but nothing concrete as i do google seaches.

[Paa_Paw]

The point of all this is to point out the simple fact that the hormones do not play solo parts but they perform in a concert with all the other hormones.

The other fact which has been hinted at but not stated directly is that not all Endocrinologists are equally qualified to analize your condition.  Some endocrinologists specialize in Diabetes for example. Another may specialize in liver function.

It has been well stated that extensive laboratory work is sometimes required and that the follow up must be equally comprehensive.

Adjusting the dosages of hormones which can have dramatic effects upon your reproductive physiology in definately not a do-it-yourself job.

Thanks to matthew1 for his well written post.

[matthew1]

paapaw  thanks  for the props on my writing,   it usually   is awful

methguy,  go here to learn about  about  HRT  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

It  is  confusing as hell,  but so far it works for me. Some guys  say  supplement are crap, I  believe they  work.

 I will  compare  adrenal stress  supplements if you want.

  I am on  thyroid treatment  for 30 years with no complications,   I see no reason these hormone will. be any different.
  Some say  our doo dads[ testicles]  will shrink from the meds,  I  will take that risks,   they are  bigs enough now wife  uses em as a  speed bag anyway

        This is  the way I look at it, I am doing the TRT  because it is needed , a medical necessity,   not like others in the bodybuilding forums discussions.

   I can say this without a  doubt,  my lifelong battle  with depression is gone  since  a few weeks after I started on these  meds, that alone is worth any side effects.

[rockin813]

anyone else find it odd that the only drs that know hormones and treat low T scores are the ones that are out of network and ur req'd to pay for the labs/consults urself? 

regardless, did this dr find out why your T levels are low?  there are number of reasons that T can be too low.  would be beneficial in finding out the cause before treating.  i've read several posts stating that TRT initially gave them an initial high only to bring them back to original lows and sometimes worse.  did u go to the yahoo group i mentioned?

meth1guy...u need  to get on propeciahelp.com .  a forum full of propecia/proscar (fin) users that have yet to recover from finasteride.  low T, adrenal concerns, etc.  u would be beneficial to them as they will be to you.  tell them jack evans sent you.

good luck

[nasa3]

thatmethguy, could you elaborate on the medication you are taking for mercury toxicity, i.e. what is it, how do you get it, and why do you think you have a mercury problem, and what were the symptoms?

thanks and God Bless

nasa

[matthew1]

anyone else find it odd that the only drs that know hormones and treat low T scores are the ones that are out of network and ur req'd to pay for the labs/consults urself? 

regardless, did this dr find out why your T levels are low?  there are number of reasons that T can be too low.  would be beneficial in finding out the cause before treating.  i've read several posts stating that TRT initially gave them an initial high only to bring them back to original lows and sometimes worse.  did u go to the yahoo group i mentioned?

meth1guy...u need  to get on propeciahelp.com .  a forum full of propecia/proscar (fin) users that have yet to recover from finasteride.  low T, adrenal concerns, etc.  u would be beneficial to them as they will be to you.  tell them jack evans sent you.

good luck

 Rockin, yes I  go to the   http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81 I go to this site daily, if thats the one you mean


 Why do you  think all these  HRT docs are out of network?  my GUESS is they  are specialist, they know there is a demand, and  make more money  net being part of the  insurance system.

 
         Listen,  my thyroid has been  underactive   for 30 years, no doctor  ever  looked  for the reason there. I just assumed  my  thyroid was  simply not working correctly , a defect that good not be corrected on its own
     I assume my  test and cortisal levels are whacked  because thats just the way I am built/ programed