Need your unbiased opinions - training results, working towards surgery...

[Jackd]

Taken a long time before I could bring myself to post pics, but f**k it, I need some opinions...

I have had gyne for years, since I was about 11/12  is first time I noticed it and started affecting my life, sure I had it before then just was just too young to care at the time.. Since then I've led a hidden life, summers wearing jumpers and jackets and not going out, not going swimming, not going on holiday etc... in summer I just don't go out unless I realy have to (i.e work) last year I found compression vests and that boosted my confidence a bit! but still don't wear t-shirts much even now...

All those years of mostly sat at a PC at home and no exercise, as well as low testosterone levels left me pretty weak and I looked really bad (still do!)

Anyways, I started "training" in May 08 this year... I still haven't sorted my diet properly so the results aren't as good as they could be really, I do weight training only, no cardio and only train 3 times a week.. trying to step up my game a bit now though and sort my diet as I'm aiming for surgery early next year and want a "beach body" by next summer if possible, got some catching up of "life" to do!!!!!

Now, here's some pictures, firstly a comparison pic... I only started training in May of this year... The improvement from the first picture to the May picture isn't from training, but because I started TRT. My T levels are still low but they are better than they were last year.

The latest pic (from today) is not long after training and I am tensed, so holding a bit more fat than it shows and it doesn't really show the gyne all that well...... not sure if there's much improvement over the may pic? I can't tell I've grown to hate myself so much I just can't see any changes hence asking for unbiased opinions.

I am still holding a fair bit of fat but gradually getting it down, I just need to sort my diet properly to lose the bodyfat  just find the diet side so much harder than the training. Had a lot to deal with too, as you can see in the first pics I have a really curved spine which I've recently found out is called Lordosis, so a lot of my training has just been trying to get my lower back a bit stronger etc. I think my posture has greatly improved since the first pics? But I have a long way to go before I'm remotely happy.

The other picture (side one) is from last week or so, its relaxed and shows the gyne a bit more how it is normally... IMO it's a lot worse than that normally though.

So, thoughts?? Does the gyne (relaxed pic) look better than before? Does my back look straighter than before? And for any of the surgeons on these boards (or people who've been through same with similar body etc) am I likely to ever get a nice body?? or am I always going to be held back by the curved spine and gyne?? 

[charlesfl]

It seems like you might have a little gland. The improvement is noticeable. You can tell that you have been working out Keep up the good work. Truthfully, you painted such a morbid picture when you described yourself that i was expecting to see a hell of a lot worse. When i saw the pics, i realized your not so bad after all. Keep up the workout!!!

[mannyman742]

Get surgery, tis the only option.  Weight training and cardio may make the gland more noticeable and poke further, but overall, people look better when in shape, even if two sets of two inches of breast tissue annoyingly scar the chest area.

[womanboob]

IDK about the gland but the nipples do look a lot better and they're still pointy which may suggest the presence of gland if you lost most of the other fat on your body. IMO if you do have gland you look like you've done enough exercise to deserve a surgery

[klitchfield]

hey man. good job. you're on the right track

check out my post from a few weeks ago. it's some good inspiration:
http://www.gynecomastia.org/smf/index.php?topic=15306.0

[Clandestine]

Well done on the body re-comp! You really do look 1000% better than in the earliest pic.

I see what you mean about your strange posture in the first picture. In the last side-on photo, the exagerated curve seems to have gone. The curvature in the last picture looks normal to me.

You may benefit greatly by also targeting your abs and hamstrings (at the back of your legs). These also play a role in posture, and are part of the general physical therapy programs for curvature of the spine (my brother has Lordosis). As weight distribution along your spine will be slightly different compared to a spine of standard curvature, be extra careful of how you perform your weight training exercises. Perfect form is very important to prevent injury.

Are you still experiencing any typical signs of low testosterone, such as lethargy, low libido, depression etc? If so, keep hassling your endo/urologist. He can and should be able to put you well within normal range (usually 300-800 ng/dl, or 14-29mol in SI units). I say this because it's actually quite possible to be able to build a decent muscle mass on surprisingly modest levels of T. It depends on your natural body type of course, but you should be able to build a good physique and amount of physical strength even at the bottom end of the range.

Don't however expect massive muscle gains in a short space of time. Being new to training you could maybe expect to gain ~30lb of lean mass in a year. This will come with some gain in fat, and you'll need to eat like a horse to achieve it.



 

[Jackd]

Cheers for the comments guys...

Get surgery, tis the only option.  Weight training and cardio may make the gland more noticeable and poke further, but overall, people look better when in shape, even if two sets of two inches of breast tissue annoyingly scar the chest area.

I do plan to get surgery 100%, I've seen an endo and definetly have gland, I've also seen the endo again recently and he's confirmed that as long as I stay on TRT my hormone levels are stable enough for surgery to go ahead. I just don't believe getting surgery will make me happy with my body without training and losing fat/gaining muscle etc, the plan is to do it before surgery in the hope it'll get better results from surgery, and overall be happier once it's done I didn't really expect to improve the gyne at all from training, but I think I have a bit, my chest has got really wide compared to what it was and I seem to have lost some fat from there.

Klitch, can't believe your results from just training! well done, it's better when you "earn" surgery isn't it?

Well done on the body re-comp! You really do look 1000% better than in the earliest pic.

I see what you mean about your strange posture in the first picture. In the last side-on photo, the exagerated curve seems to have gone. The curvature in the last picture looks normal to me.

You may benefit greatly by also targeting your abs and hamstrings (at the back of your legs). These also play a role in posture, and are part of the general physical therapy programs for curvature of the spine (my brother has Lordosis). As weight distribution along your spine will be slightly different compared to a spine of standard curvature, be extra careful of how you perform your weight training exercises. Perfect form is very important to prevent injury.

I only recently done some research and googled "curved spine" and found out about Lordosis, I wish I found the info sooner! I've added a few exercises to my day to day life and warm up pre-training which are meant to help with lordosis (leg swings for hamstrings, "birddogs" and "bridges")  only done them for about 2 days so can't comment yet but going to do them as often as possible and see how it is in a few weeks time.

Are you still experiencing any typical signs of low testosterone, such as lethargy, low libido, depression etc? If so, keep hassling your endo/urologist. He can and should be able to put you well within normal range (usually 300-800 ng/dl, or 14-29mol in SI units). I say this because it's actually quite possible to be able to build a decent muscle mass on surprisingly modest levels of T. It depends on your natural body type of course, but you should be able to build a good physique and amount of physical strength even at the bottom end of the range.

My current T Levels are 14.9 if I remember correctly, so /just/ in the lower range, they are up from 2.2 at the end of last year. Libidio is fine, but I am still fairly lethargic and tired, but I have had sleeping problems for years which I guess are down to depression and may cause the lethargy... I asked my endo about the lethargy and he said that my hormone levels are reasonable and the lethargy isn't down to the hormones.... he said it must be down to a "busy life"... I do work a lot, and I don't eat properly which I think affects me a lot, so maybe that is down to the diet and lack of sleep more than low testosterone....

I am still depressed but I'm looking forward to things and just thinking of being by the pool next summer

Don't however expect massive muscle gains in a short space of time. Being new to training you could maybe expect to gain ~30lb of lean mass in a year. This will come with some gain in fat, and you'll need to eat like a horse to achieve it.

I'm in this for the long run, so not looking for a quick fix as such. I was worried that low testosterone would hold me back so much, but if what you say is true then I should be fine... I have added about 1.5 inches to my arms already so it can't be holding me back too much I guess! I just need to sort my diet out properly and eat well! I don't want to bulk or cut, from the reading I've done, I need to eat well and train hard and I should slowly but surely build muscle /and/ lose some fat.... I hope! I have no muscle to be worth cutting really, but I do want to shift some of this fat soon.

[whoknows]

Cheers for the comments guys...

Get surgery, tis the only option.  Weight training and cardio may make the gland more noticeable and poke further, but overall, people look better when in shape, even if two sets of two inches of breast tissue annoyingly scar the chest area.

I do plan to get surgery 100%, I've seen an endo and definetly have gland, I've also seen the endo again recently and he's confirmed that as long as I stay on TRT my hormone levels are stable enough for surgery to go ahead. I just don't believe getting surgery will make me happy with my body without training and losing fat/gaining muscle etc, the plan is to do it before surgery in the hope it'll get better results from surgery, and overall be happier once it's done I didn't really expect to improve the gyne at all from training, but I think I have a bit, my chest has got really wide compared to what it was and I seem to have lost some fat from there.

Klitch, can't believe your results from just training! well done, it's better when you "earn" surgery isn't it?

Well done on the body re-comp! You really do look 1000% better than in the earliest pic.

I see what you mean about your strange posture in the first picture. In the last side-on photo, the exagerated curve seems to have gone. The curvature in the last picture looks normal to me.

You may benefit greatly by also targeting your abs and hamstrings (at the back of your legs). These also play a role in posture, and are part of the general physical therapy programs for curvature of the spine (my brother has Lordosis). As weight distribution along your spine will be slightly different compared to a spine of standard curvature, be extra careful of how you perform your weight training exercises. Perfect form is very important to prevent injury.

I only recently done some research and googled "curved spine" and found out about Lordosis, I wish I found the info sooner! I've added a few exercises to my day to day life and warm up pre-training which are meant to help with lordosis (leg swings for hamstrings, "birddogs" and "bridges")  only done them for about 2 days so can't comment yet but going to do them as often as possible and see how it is in a few weeks time.

Are you still experiencing any typical signs of low testosterone, such as lethargy, low libido, depression etc? If so, keep hassling your endo/urologist. He can and should be able to put you well within normal range (usually 300-800 ng/dl, or 14-29mol in SI units). I say this because it's actually quite possible to be able to build a decent muscle mass on surprisingly modest levels of T. It depends on your natural body type of course, but you should be able to build a good physique and amount of physical strength even at the bottom end of the range.

My current T Levels are 14.9 if I remember correctly, so /just/ in the lower range, they are up from 2.2 at the end of last year. Libidio is fine, but I am still fairly lethargic and tired, but I have had sleeping problems for years which I guess are down to depression and may cause the lethargy... I asked my endo about the lethargy and he said that my hormone levels are reasonable and the lethargy isn't down to the hormones.... he said it must be down to a "busy life"... I do work a lot, and I don't eat properly which I think affects me a lot, so maybe that is down to the diet and lack of sleep more than low testosterone....

I am still depressed but I'm looking forward to things and just thinking of being by the pool next summer

Don't however expect massive muscle gains in a short space of time. Being new to training you could maybe expect to gain ~30lb of lean mass in a year. This will come with some gain in fat, and you'll need to eat like a horse to achieve it.

I'm in this for the long run, so not looking for a quick fix as such. I was worried that low testosterone would hold me back so much, but if what you say is true then I should be fine... I have added about 1.5 inches to my arms already so it can't be holding me back too much I guess! I just need to sort my diet out properly and eat well! I don't want to bulk or cut, from the reading I've done, I need to eat well and train hard and I should slowly but surely build muscle /and/ lose some fat.... I hope! I have no muscle to be worth cutting really, but I do want to shift some of this fat soon.

good result so far. Just pointing out in your comment about bulk/cut. You're not going to be able to take advantage of fat burning hormones for very much longer. My point is, you're going to have to be in a deficit or over maintenence to go anywhere man. It IS a one way street, only not when you first start or if you're on roids. I'm kind of in the same situation as you, taking my muscle gain phase very slowly but still over maintenence so that I DO go somewhere. I tried the whole "slow route" and trust me, IT DOESNT WORK. you will go no where and be frusturated. Although, you probably wont listen to some random on the internet anyways But I tried, right!?

[Jackd]

Hi, so eating a good diet but neither bulking nor cutting, isn't going to get me anywhere? I try to eat small meals 5-6 times a day with protein every meal, tuna, chicken, wholemeal etc... I don't eat enough to be considered on a bulk and I eat too much to be cutting... not sure what to do really, cut or bulk.. I want to get lean but also want a lot lot more muscle... hmmm

[Clandestine]

whoknows is correct, you can only really do one thing at once.

If you're unhappy about how much fat you're carrying then dropping some bodyfat first would be a good idea before trying to add a large amount of muscle.

You can build muscle and shift fat without any artificial help if you're very new to training. My body weight remained the same for over a month whilst I visibly lost fat. I was definately in a calorie defecit, eating 2200kcal with a BMR of 2150, an active job and 6  cardio sessions a week ontop of weight training. For the last couple of weeks I've dropped 1.5 kg a week, meaning muscle growth's stopped.... for now

It would be interesting for you to first calculate your BMR, and then count the calories in a typical days eating. It's surprising how you can under estimate your intake. Some don't get on with counting calories for whatever reason, but I'm fine with it. How else can you have an idea of how much to eat to attain your goals. If you want to be a 14 stone (196lb) man, you have to eat like a 14 stone man.

[Jackd]

How do I work out my BMR etc? I guess once I know the BMR I have to eat less than that each day to lose fat? Will I lose muscle in doing so? I think I'd be overall happier if I could shift some fat first, as I am really out of proportion, seem to have a lot of fat around my thighs/bum and belly! think I'd be happier shifting that /then/ bulking up.

I have an active job, I don't currently do any cardio, but could add it if it will help... was tempted to buy a punch bag?

[viper87]

Hey mate,

What have you changed in ur diet? Can u give me some indication of what u ate prior to ur diet compared to now? Great results though - i'm incredibly jealous, but happy for you  well done.

[viper87]

Sorry for the double post, but I did a quick google search...if you follow the link below you'll be able to work out ur BMR.

http://www.raykellyfitness.com/Calculators/BMR/tabid/262/Default.aspx

[puffbiggie]

u could work on your upper and mid pectorals to compensate.  Smooth out puffiness, but it'll take time. 
u want quick result then surgery will do, but cost money.  It's always either time or money brother.

[Jackd]

Little update...

Well I haven't been training nearly as much as I should and my diet has been terrible.

But on the plus side I'm having surgery on this coming wednesday!!!!! I'm nervous but can't wait!

Here's a pic from just now.. not long after training so the gyne doesn't look too bad but how am I looking now compared to the previous pics? I don't see much improvement overall really but I guess that's down to the lapse of motivation with the training!

When I'm good enough to train again, I plan to get back on a decent laid out training routine and a bulking diet.

Comments on the pic welcome, good or bad (but constructive please)

Front on pic is from just now.

Side mirror pic is from last week with no training prior to pic and shows the gyne a lot more