Hello and Help! - Recent onset Gyne

[fguss01]

Some ductal tissue may have been there from when I was an overweight early teen but dormant - GP surprised at change in my physical shape, development of breast buds + female pattern wieght gain and Endo now accepts active Gyne after ultrasound confirmation.

GP theory is that my hormones were finely balanced and that the Domp has upset that give me estrogen dominance....

Interestingly due to my exercise my actual weight is unchanged - it is just the distribution.

Appreciate the thought though.

[fguss01]

Going to see the endo tonight and glad to be going - LHS has been very tender for 3 days and demonstrates some increase in mass.

Have done a complete review of all the publicly available medical trial and review article data (US NCBI is a godsend for this) on Nolva vs Adex and it is surprising how few proper double blind trials have been done execept for a couple done on guys being treated with anti-androgens for Prostate Cancer where Nolva comes out clearly on top.

Doing web searches clearly shows Adex to be preferred but much of this opinion comes from Bodybuilders who are looking to either prevent or get rid of pure glandular growth at an early stage - opinions? Has anyone successfully got rid of combined fatty/glandular gyne of a couple of months duration with Adex alone?

The ideal imho would be Nolva with a side dose of Adex to drop the E2 but I cannot imagine the endo agreeing to this - so let's see what he has to say later.....

[fguss01]

Well, saw the endo last evening.

I had my LH, FSH, Test and Prolactin all re-done at 09:00 ~1 week ago, they all came back within normal ranges, most significant were;

Test - 24nmol/l = 690ng/dl
Prolactin - 218mu/l

So the Prolactin is pretty consistent with the earlier read but the Test is much higher, previous reading was taken at 3pm so endo thinks "circadian rhythm" ie variation through the day is to blame for this.

Overall he is happy with my bloods and various other tests/exams that have been done,apparetnly I am eugonadal and euthyroid which is a posh way of saying I am OK I think :-).

So my Gyne is probably medically defined as idiopathic although I am convinced that the Domp tipped me over the edge, I was an overweight early teen despite lots of exercise and probably had developed breast tissue at that time which i didnt notice, as an adult I have always been lean but have tended to carry any fat that I do have on my chest and stomach - hence the swimming to keep in shape.

Going forward the endo has presribed 20mg/day of Tamoxifen which I have started today - I will keep you posted on my progress.

Thanks for the support.

[fguss01]

Sorry, forgot to ask, does anyone know how long Tamoxifen takes to get into the breast tissue and also if it is going to work when I might expect to see/feel some benefit?

Thanks.

[xelnaga13]

Sorry, forgot to ask, does anyone know how long Tamoxifen takes to get into the breast tissue and also if it is going to work when I might expect to see/feel some benefit?

Thanks.

Within a day or so you should notice decreased pain/sensitivity. The time line for progress is as impossible to predict as the progress itself. However, within the next few weeks you should find out if it has any positive impact on your gyne's size.

[fguss01]

thanks for the response, will post back in a few days.....

[Alchemist]

I have gyne since age 12, 52 years ago.  Based on my personal history and observing many others in a number of nutritional programs correcting the most common nutritional deficiencies we have.  Low methylb12, adenosylb12 and methylfolate can cause testosterone to drop and supplementation can also restore levels in some people.  There are changes in the digestive system that accumulate past age 50 that make it difficult to absorb the natural b12s from the animal food products in which it exists.  Low testosterone and dozens of the symptoms of low testosterone all appear with low b12s/mfolate.  I don't know that there is a causal relationship but there is a correlation.  Whether this leads to gyne directly or indirectly is not known but there appears to be at least a co-incidence.  Percentage of incidence in the 50s is also about the same.  According to some researchers, there are about 600 biochemical reaction chains are affected by low MB12/ADB12/MFOLATE.  As each of these can be traced down and show complex patterns of things biochemical out of balance.  If it does affect the many hormones on a going forward basis, it doesn't cause any shrinkage of tissue that has already grown.  However, it can relieve all those ongoing functional symptoms of tiredness, abnormal tissue growth, abnormal cells, abnormal metabolism, mood effects, personality effects and so on.

When sufficient mb12/adb12/mfolate are taken, many biochemical abnormalities correct and other items, other nutrients and meds, frequently work better.

I honestly don't have any answers on what to do about gyne.  I can make a case for each possibility.

The possibility exists that both the growth of breasts AND neuropsyc mood and personality effects could be from common causality in some cases. I was depressed for much of my life until one hour after taking methylb12. If b12/folate are connected and another consideration is that many drugs while affecting hormones directly may also have anti-folate and/or b12 qualities.  If the neuropsyc symptoms are from the nutrient deficiency(s) they may be correctable with nutrients. 

Further underlying most of the suffering and misery are the cultural teaching of body shame and perhaps narcissism as the way to be.  With something so totally common as a lifetime incidence of around 50% would indicate, where it is everywhere one looks, how does our society convince so many to despise themselves?  Cultural teaching and memes certainly varies from one country to another.  It used to be the women who despised their bodies in many particulars.  Gyne has been a problem my whole lifetime.  At this point it really doesn't matter at all.  It affects my life in no way.  I have a good relationship, but gyne has never affected my dating or relationship life except for all the opportunities I turned down because of my fears.  I wear whatever ordinary clothing I want to.  I also discovered by age 20 that the great equalizer is for everybody to get nude.  Nobody bullies or targets another when nude because everybody is equally vulnerable to having a less than perfect body.  In 44 years of practicing social nudity I have never seen a perfect body.  It is also an excellent setting for learning to accept one's body and can succeed.

Good luck.

[fguss01]

Update: Pain relief good but tenderness and heat still present with ductal tissue still growing and breast looking more "breast like" and prominent if that makes sense.

Latest letter from endo hints at trying Adex after another 5 weeks on Tam but he is unwilling to consider joint therapy or finishing the Tam early - I have now taken 9 x 20 mg.

Joint therapy appears to be safe lookign at the trial data at 1mg Adex + 20mg Tam - efficacy of Adex does not appear to be markedly affected.

So, given that the growth contnues and that I have some Adex to hand from Alkem Pharma I have a decision to make since the daily torture of watching this grow is driving me crazy!

[wbw0124]

Due to the brand shop high Leggings price let most women flinch, so most of the girls turn to those fake leggings, but they worry about leggings quality is very poor, so how to choose those affordable quality good Leggings And Tights is also need some skills. The best way is to make contrast some shop around.

[fguss01]

All,
Quick update.

Been on Nolva 20mg pd for three weeks and no visible change yet and also no change to the discomfort/pain which follows a roughly 7-8 day cycle.

Still getting hot armpits through the night which tells me that the inflammatory process of buildling tissue continues.

So - either the Nolva needs more time, or maybe I am not metabolising it well as Nolva needs "activating" in the body by an enzyme called CYP2D6 which is variable across individuals.

Or - maybe my Gyne just will not respnd to Nolva.

So, going to see another Endo in the UK with expertise in male hormones to get his view as my original guys is on hols for a coupla weeks and wont see me again until early Nov - cant wait that long - going crazy......

Will keep you posted.....

Thanks.

[xelnaga13]

Keep your head up!

[fguss01]

"Interesting" week....

Saw another endo who took a very detailed history and has organised lots more bloods including free Test, DHEAS, SHBG and a bunch of other stuff.

Also - he maintained on examination that I currently have very little gyne - which contradicts the ultrasound I had done three weeks ago which clearly showed gandular tissue underenath and around the nipple.

Later in the week paid to have another ultrasound and although the overall breast volume is unchanged the size of the glandular tissue below the nipple does appear to have reduced somewhat.

So, keep taking the Tamoxifen and see what happens.....I would have expected a reduction in volume along with the reduction in glandular tissue but there again - what do I know :-)

Thanks.