NORMAL

[hammer]

I see so many guys post that they "just want to be normal"! I have made many comments about what normal is or isn't and over time I've thought about it and with all the different post I've read here on the forum no one ever has said what normal is!

Is normal tall or short, thin or fat, wide hips or no hips, long hair, thin hair or bushy hair, big muscle, meat eater or vegetarian, ect.......

After some thought this is what I come up with.

Being an individual is what normal is, or there would be no such thing as personal choice!

Any thoughts?



Bob

[Sven]

Hi Bob,

What you've said about normal is a very nice way to think about things.  In fact, in the Christian religion it says that people look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.

The people talking about wanting to LOOK normal are referring to their physical appearance.  A normal chest would be one that conforms to the usual shape and proportion that we are accustomed to seeing on a man.  A chest with large gynecomastia is not the "typical" male chest and does not fit into the range that most people would consider "usual" or "normal".

You are being very nice, but I feel you are thinking too deeply about an issue that is simply defined. I think it is reasonable to say that people around the globe have come to a general understanding of what a "normal" male chest is - otherwise this forum would not exist.

Regards,

Sven

[leosud]

I want to live quietly with my body, my chest even if it is "beautiful"

In France it's not easy every day !

[hammer]

Hi Bob,

What you've said about normal is a very nice way to think about things.  In fact, in the Christian religion it says that people look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.

The people talking about wanting to LOOK normal are referring to their physical appearance.  A normal chest would be one that conforms to the usual shape and proportion that we are accustomed to seeing on a man.  A chest with large gynecomastia is not the "typical" male chest and does not fit into the range that most people would consider "usual" or "normal".

You are being very nice, but I feel you are thinking too deeply about an issue that is simply defined. I think it is reasonable to say that people around the globe have come to a general understanding of what a "normal" male chest is - otherwise this forum would not exist.

Regards,

Sven

As an Ordained Christian Minister, I'm very aware of what the religion teaches, however, in most faiths it is taught that we are perfect in Gods eyes no mater what we look like.

I'm not saying that it is wrong to get surgery to change something that you don't like about you're self be it gynecomastia, cleft lip, or something else whether it is looks or interferes with life's everyday duties like cleft lip.  I would like to see more people accept not only themselves, but others as they are!

There once was a time, in my life time at 56 years of age that you had no idea who around you may or not be gay, and now they have the right to marry one another, but one the same token, if a man has big breast due to health reasons or side affects of prescription medications, he should feel as if he is an out cast and need to get expensive surgery? I think not!

Due to health reasons I've lost my testicles and have already had to go through many surgeries to try to improve my quality of life, such as my ability to walk. In doing so I've grown to 46H size bra, now for me that does not make me feel any less normal then the fact that I need to use a wheelchair to get around, nor do I feel I should need to have surgery to feel accepted my anyone, or for that mater, normal.

Gynecomastia is becoming a fact of life for males! I'm hopping to see the insurance industry start covering the cost of surgery so those that can't afford it may get it, but I also hope to see that those that for what ever reason don't get the surgery aren't looked at as outcast because their men with big breast and choose to support them.

I'm not gay, I'm happily married with 5 children and 3 grandchildren, I have never needed to hid in a closet and have a coming out party, nor should or any one else need to in this day and age! Acceptance shouldn't even be an issue!

Normal is an individual, being himself.

[Sven]

Normal is an individual, being himself.

Bob,

I can tell your post is written from the heart, and that you are a very sincere person.  I find that refreshing and encouraging.  People like you are the ones who will help mold the world into a more accepting and welcoming place.

As an ordained Christian minister, you know that when God created Adam, He created him in His image.  At that time there would not have been physical ailments like the ones that you suffer from, because those sicknesses do not reflect God's image (see Rev 21:4).
 
The health problems you are persevering are not "normal".  It is not unheard of, but most people in the USA do not know a lot of people who share many of the struggles you have had to face.  "Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything" James 1:4.  This verse refers to how trials build character.  The understanding and character you posses are not normal, they are above average.  So I suppose it is a bit of a trade off.  You have gained a great deal of character, but not without scars, such as gynecomastia, that reveal some of the difficulties you have had to face to get to where you are at.  It is very hard to impart this type of understanding to someone who does not have the life experience you have.

I had my gynecomastia surgically removed for a number of reasons.  I lived with it for quite some time, and I still went shirtless at the beach, pool, or wherever.  Fortunately for me, having it removed was something I was able to talk about with my friends and family, and I had their support throughout the process.  I don't feel vain for having the surgery done - I wasn't trying to become a model, I just wanted a masculine chest that didn't hurt when I surfed, or jiggle and even bleed when I went for long runs.  These issues are not "normal" for men my age.  I have two personal friends who also have gynecomastia, and we have been able to relate with the "struggles" of having gyno.  The very definition of a "struggle" indicates there is a "problem" or an "abnormality" to be dealt with.

Semantically, there is no way I can agree with your definition of "normal", because it surmises that all people are normal.  That just isn't the case.  If all people were normal, we wouldn't have criminals and we wouldn't have leaders.  I can agree that "normal" is relative based on what culture you live in, but in any culture, not every individual who is simply being him/herself would be considered normal.  I do, however, agree with the overall tone of acceptance and kindness that came across in your post.

[hammer]

Good points Sven, and thank you!

Congrats on your surgery and I wish the best for your friends, as I said I support surgery as well for those who desire to get it!

Bob

[hammer]

As I thought over the last two post, Sven and my reply, I really should have clarified at the beginning that I was referring to physical "normal" on this posting only as one could never include any mental illnesses into being normal at all. When you look back the the tragedies to mankind from people like Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot no one can ever call the things they did normal! Their crimes to humanity are despicable, and I'm not sure that they are even explainable!

Yes I know that every day there are crimes going on that leave a person to question, how can people do that to one another, but as I said, I meant this to be on the outside only.

As I write this, I think about the fact that, we as man kind have one hell of a long way to come to even treat each other as well as the animals of the world treat each other!

Sorry if I bore you with my ramblings, I just got carried away with my thoughts and my key board on my iPad!

[Paa_Paw]

As a child growing up, I remember that all the members of my family had brown eyes. Are Blue eyes abnormal?

In my family, everyone had brown hair. Is red or blonde hair abnormal?

In my family, all of the men had at least slightly enlarged breasts. Are flat chested men abnormal?

I happen to be the first male in the history of my family to live more than 75 years. If this is abnormal, I'm Loving it.

Normal is not a point, it is a range. We do evolve in some ways so the range becomes ever wider.

[headheldhigh01]

All true...and yet we still know what the question means. 

Most - not all, but most - of us here would define normal as without gyne.  If some are happy with it, good for them. 

Until then, my definition for myself is gyne free.  After that I don't care if you're left/right/center, hipster or punk, gay or straight, conventional or conspiracy theorist, buzzcut or green mohawk    

[Alchemist]

"Normal" is a tricky thing.  In healthcare something like 20% of the population has 80% of the expenditures, and it is no great honor.  Because of certain mistaken research chronic nutritional deficiencies are now part of "normal" range in variety of tests.  This aberration has become defined as the "norm".  If you line up 1 million men by breast size you will find a a normal distribution curve with some kind of idealized flatness down at the bottom 2.5% of population and HH or thereabouts on the other end, the large 2.5%.  The idealized "flatness" is no more normal or less normal than HH cup breasts.  Having a view that only the most extreme unusual idealized or maybe imaginary flatness of chest is normal is going to leave the other 97.5% abnormal my comparison. Is the middle +-1 SD the "normal" folks, or the +-2 SD?

I see plenty of actors on TV and in movies that have breasts that would have others running for a surgeon. I saw a weight lifter the other day who had a bra clearly visible under his shirt. Here we really are not talking about normal, or even ordinary, but rather "cosmetically ideal". 

In the American Sexual Tragedy, by Albert Ellis, he details the women in his practice and how unhappy they are.  The less they accept their body the more things they find wrong with it the less happy they are. After successful psychotherapy  with the same bodies, they are unhappy about few items and are happier.  He details how this dissatisfaction of the body compared to an imaginary ideal that almost nobody actually achieves or even able to achieve, causes all sorts of unhappiness.

I would love to have a normal body; one that didn't need $15/day worth of specific special nutrients and drugs out of pocket to keep it alive and functioning.  I'm sure Bob would like a normal healthy body too.  And that has NOTHING at all to do with how it looks. At this point how my body looks is a nothing, how it works is everything.  Those whose bodies work normally are the fortunate ones, regardless of how their perceived beauty goes.  I'd be glad to trade all sorts of neurological problems for a larger cup size that doesn't matter at all.

[hammer]

Alchemist my friend, you have said a mouth few and your right, I would love to have the old Bob back!

I can't count the number of times I've been told "I must be nice not to have to work"! I would be happy as HELL to go back to work to the WORST job to have my health back, but then on the same note, I'm not going to cry about the hand I've been dealt either! I'll take what life hands me and I'll make the bast of it!

[headheldhigh01]

and my point was still there's a commonsense meaning in gyne contexts which most people understand.  i've been in my share of locker rooms, i know how the distributions really run.  if gyne is more prevalent than it used to be, which i think it is, i've argued there are reasons in the modern corporate-shaped diet that make it that way.  if some are at peace with that, good for them. 

ymmv. 

[walt]

what is normal .its an interpretation at best , I work the healthcare field and see all sorts of bodies in various states of undress on a daily basis and to be normal is what ever you think it should be.to thyne self be true!

[Paa_Paw]

One common association is the Gynecomastia is more common in obese men than in slender men. I think that is at least partially true for a few reasons though not as generally true as some people would think.

Even so, as the populace in general becomes more obese, the incidence of Gynecomastia seems to be increasing also.

For several reason, weight loss alone seldom ever reduces the breast size sufficiently to satisfy most people with the condition but many people are still giving the advice to lose some weight and it will go away. Ignorance would seem to be more common than Gynecomastia.

[hammer]

"Ignorance would seem to be more common than Gynecomastia." Thanks Paa_Paw!

Isn't that the truth, and it fits in all aspect of life. Just look no further than all the people on the road that think that the big red STOP sign means, "SLIGHTLY TAP ON PEDAL"!  Oh and the number of people that never learned how to TAKE THEIR TURN!   The old saying, I leaned everything I every needed to know in kindergarten has gone out the window.

Sorry about going off topic, but the ignorance statement got me going!