Klinefelter's syndrome and gynecomastia

[gotgyne]

I stumbled on an interesting article of a boy with Klinefelter's syndrome (47,XXY) who for this reason developed breasts at age 13. For five years he hid his breasts under baggy clothes. At 18 he got diagnosed, began to embrace life and chose to live as a woman. Although she liked her breasts and didn't want them removed, she underwent breast reduction to make her family happy. But it was not her life. In the end she left her family.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3162042/I-didn-t-choose-woman-GREW-one-naturally-Born-boy-Charli-developed-breasts-13-result-extremely-rare-condition-means-s-male-female.html

It is heartbreaking, that even today the only treatment recommendation for people with Klinefelter's syndrome in case of gynecomastia is the surgical removal of the breasts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome#Treatment

John

[Dudewithboobs]

It’s not really heartbreaking to me. It’s medically just not possible to remove tissue any other way. Can’t reattach a finger with duct tape lol sometimes just need surgery for the option available. I think for KF the heartbreaking is the overall effects of sterility, growth, development and the life long handicaps it often comes with. Breast growth in KF I’d imagine is easily one of the last worries one has. Nonetheless a horrible situation for those who aren’t comfortable with the results of KF overall to their growth concerns they deal with insecurities of them and harassment from others as a result growing up and dating. 

[gotgyne]

It’s not really heartbreaking to me. It’s medically just not possible to remove tissue any other way. Can’t reattach a finger with duct tape lol sometimes just need surgery for the option available. I think for KF the heartbreaking is the overall effects of sterility, growth, development and the life long handicaps it often comes with. Breast growth in KF I’d imagine is easily one of the last worries one has. Nonetheless a horrible situation for those who aren’t comfortable with the results of KF overall to their growth concerns they deal with insecurities of them and harassment from others as a result growing up and dating.

Dudewithboobs, I understand what you mean. The other effects of KF are more problematic, that's right. But I found it heartbreaking that even today the possibility of living with breasts is not an option for doctors. The young boy was unsure but at age 18 came to the conclusion that he liked his breasts. But the parents obviously forced him to let them remove. At that time, some decades ago, I understand that no physician supported his feelings to keep the breasts. But even now that's the "standard of care". Always if I read about gynecomastia the surgical route is recommended, never just to keep them. A young man who doesn't know this cannot choose between several possibilities.
John

[gotgyne]

To me, this story is simply another example of how uncomfortable differences are for people.  My mother's family emigrated from Norway.  When she was born in northern Minnesota, family members were shocked because she was born with black hair, brown eyes and olive complexion that was more like Indians in the area than her blue-eyed blonde relatives.  She was treated more like a hired helper than loving first child/grandchild in that family.  It really doesn't matter what the difference might be.  People simply can't wrap their minds around it... and so they do anything they can to change the situation.  Boys who develop fleshy chests in adolescence are invariably objects of scorn.  Men here have written about their experiences as teens and it wasn't pretty.  This syndrome definitely creates challenges for those 1 in 600 boys.  I wonder whether the condition is present for any of the men posting here?

Today we witness the struggle between parents who are willing to listen to their children who feel uncomfortable in their gender and politicians who believe such conversations shouldn't happen and that medical treatment should be forbidden.  This is the world in which we live... pretty nasty if you ask me.  I expect those of us who opt to wear brassieres will not find a great deal of support for that decision.  So we find our way here, supporting one another... more or less.

42CSuprise, to begin at the end of your answer, gender is a vast topic. I know about the discussions. But in Germany politics tends to throw out the baby with the bath water. In some kindergartens four year old children get sexual education with plastic vaginas and so on. Some politicians demand to let seven year old children choose their gender. At Berlin soon a kindergarten shall open with a man in the board who is a defender of pedophilia. This is weird! Now in German television for children, pills which block puberty are recommended to all children that are not sure about their gender. They are not harmless. They can cause permanent damage like deep vein thromboses, infertility and many other problems.

Your mother's story is sad. Every child should be loved for himself and herself. There should be no family beliefs. Regarding boys with gynecomastia, we should take every opportunity to inform the public. Not to educate, since nobody wishes to be educated. And yes, we had a man here with Klinefelter syndrome. Later he started a campaign for donations to get his breasts removed. I don't know if he was successful.
John
https://forum.gynecomastia.org/index.php?topic=30423.0

[Evolver]

I'm certainly not an expert in this, so my opinion can be taken as either impartial or ignorant. Maybe both.

Seems to me, it is a classic case of cosmetic surgery being undertaken to 'cure' an underlying condition. Which, in this case, was impossible.

[aboywithgirls]

I'm certainly not an expert in this, so my opinion can be taken as either impartial or ignorant. Maybe both.

Seems to me, it is a classic case of cosmetic surgery being undertaken to 'cure' an underlying condition. Which, in this case, was impossible.

Thank you Aussie for this.🥰🤗

For me, at one time, I had considered having the girls removed. I never went as far as even a consultation but, I had thought about it but never seriously. 

I always had enjoyed having them and wearing a bra is how I managed them. It would have been pressure from society, family and friends that would have been the reason IF I would have had them removed. 

As a woman of transgender experience, my breasts are a part of my womanhood and how I truly identify. That being said, breasts ARE NOT exclusive to women or femininity and neither are bras. My boobs and bras don't make me a woman. My orchiectomy and vaginoplasty don't make me a woman. Wearing a skirt suit to work doesn't make me a woman either. My heart, soul and mind make me a woman. All of the other visible things allow the world to see and interact with me as I feel on the inside. 

Sophie ❤️ 

[Evolver]

As a woman of transgender experience, my breasts are a part of my womanhood and how I truly identify. That being said, breasts ARE NOT exclusive to women or femininity and neither are bras. My boobs and bras don't make me a woman. My orchiectomy and vaginoplasty don't make me a woman. Wearing a skirt suit to work doesn't make me a woman either. My heart, soul and mind make me a woman. All of the other visible things allow the world to see and interact with me as I feel on the inside.

Sophie ❤️

That has to be the most perfect description ever!  Sophie, I know you've written before about matching your outside with your inside, but that really hit home. It should be compulsory reading for those poor souls who don't yet understand. Bravo.

Sorry for going off-topic, gotgyne.

[gotgyne]

As a woman of transgender experience, my breasts are a part of my womanhood and how I truly identify. That being said, breasts ARE NOT exclusive to women or femininity and neither are bras. My boobs and bras don't make me a woman. My orchiectomy and vaginoplasty don't make me a woman. Wearing a skirt suit to work doesn't make me a woman either. My heart, soul and mind make me a woman. All of the other visible things allow the world to see and interact with me as I feel on the inside.

Sophie ❤️

That has to be the most perfect description ever! Sophie, I know you've written before about matching your outside with your inside, but that really hit home. It should be compulsory reading for those poor souls who don't yet understand. Bravo.

Sorry for going off-topic, gotgyne.

Aussie, no problem with going off-topic. Many threads gain good suggestions with going off-topic. In my country there are so many problems with 'political correctness' and all the other restrictions of free speech, that I'm glad to discuss all topics openly here.

Sophie, your definition should become the standard for all people who work on this field and all other people as well.

John

[42CSurprise!]

To me, this story is simply another example of how uncomfortable differences are for people.  My mother's family emigrated from Norway.  When she was born in northern Minnesota, family members were shocked because she was born with black hair, brown eyes and olive complexion that was more like Indians in the area than her blue-eyed blonde relatives.  She was treated more like a hired helper than loving first child/grandchild in that family.  It really doesn't matter what the difference might be.  People simply can't wrap their minds around it... and so they do anything they can to change the situation.  Boys who develop fleshy chests in adolescence are invariably objects of scorn.  Men here have written about their experiences as teens and it wasn't pretty.  This syndrome definitely creates challenges for those 1 in 600 boys.  I wonder whether the condition is present for any of the men posting here?

Today we witness the struggle between parents who are willing to listen to their children who feel uncomfortable in their gender and politicians who believe such conversations shouldn't happen and that medical treatment should be forbidden.  This is the world in which we live... pretty nasty if you ask me.  I expect those of us who opt to wear brassieres will not find a great deal of support for that decision.  So we find our way here, supporting one another... more or less.

42CSuprise, to begin at the end of your answer, gender is a vast topic. I know about the discussions. But in Germany politics tends to throw out the baby with the bath water. In some kindergartens four year old children get sexual education with plastic vaginas and so on. Some politicians demand to let seven year old children choose their gender. At Berlin soon a kindergarten shall open with a man in the board who is a defender of pedophilia. This is weird! Now in German television for children, pills which block puberty are recommended to all children that are not sure about their gender. They are not harmless. They can cause permanent damage like deep vein thromboses, infertility and many other problems.

Your mother's story is sad. Every child should be loved for himself and herself. There should be no family beliefs. Regarding boys with gynecomastia, we should take every opportunity to inform the public. Not to educate, since nobody wishes to be educated. And yes, we had a man here with Klinefelter syndrome. Later he started a campaign for donations to get his breasts removed. I don't know if he was successful.
John
https://forum.gynecomastia.org/index.php?topic=30423.0

Interesting to see me quoted on this thread while the original post being quoted does not appear on the thread... mmm.  Is someone deleting posts?  Inquiring minds want to know..l

[bendo]

Hello,

It's been a long time since I last posted a message.

You should know that there are as many cases of Klinefelter as there are people. Every expression of the syndrome is different, every physique is different. For me, until my testicular surgery to try to find sperm (in vain), I had no symptoms apart from the long legs and I didn't even know I had this syndrome. I am not overweight (BMI 20), etc...

Before my operation I was treated with HCG for 7 months to improve my chances. After 4 months and therefore for 3 months, I discovered these strong pains that many people report. Fortunately I don't run, otherwise it would have been impossible. When I went out for winter sports, I was so irritated that I had to put cotton wool on my nipples. It only lasted 3 months but on reflection it would have been easier to buy a sports bra. After the treatment was stopped, the glandular mass disappeared and everything went back to normal.

On the other hand, during this operation they did everything they could to try to find spermatozoa, a little too much in fact, and on top of that they gave me a nosocomial infection in my testicles. That's all been sorted out but now I'm at 50% below my starting rate of testosterone (I'm still hoping it will go up a bit). I still don't need any treatment but the consequence is that my T/E2 ratio is a bit low at about 10. In the last few days I have had some irritation all over (including on the sides) in my chest but at a very very low level compared to before. It feels more like a skin irritation. Fortunately it has stopped since yesterday but I feel like I am borderline.

In any case, if it were to go to the wrong side, I would not have an operation as long as it is not too big (no more than A or B cup in Europe norms). With the operation I've had, I'm not too confident about the rest. It's really  not a question of money because the health insurance in my country is known to be generous and even without it, from my point of view, health is priceless. It's really an analysis between the consequences of the operation and the gain it brings.

But fortunately, I'm not concerned at all at the moment.

[Rich meier]

does anyone know what type of doctor would have to do this type of testing

[Dudewithboobs]

A general physician can provide referral to have lab tests done. Generally there are pretty indicative signs of KF. From size of testes lack of progressed growth in the pubic area. Hip structure, breast growth, etc. To my understanding it doesn’t take an endocrinologist or urologist or specialist of any sort to conduct the testing and often is just a specific blood test and anatomy examine to diagnose. 

[Rich meier]

thank you

[bendo]

You have to do a karyotype. And in my country, you also have to fill in some authorisations papers.
They will then analyse different cells to check if you are 46, XY (I hope for you), 47, XXY or a mix 46, XY/47, XXY.

Only a karyotype can determine if you have Klinefelter or not. But the palpation of testicules will help because there is a specific consistance.
There is also your values of LH and FSH. If they are very high, it means that there is a problem, not specifically klinefelter but it is a possibility.

When I first saw the urologist who found it he told me that he has seen all sort of klinefelter people : small, tall, big, thin.