Sigmund Freud: "Anatomy is Destiny" (1924)

[Justagirl💃]

As a child I was coddled by my grandmother. She seemed to be the only one that understood me after mother left.
I learned to sew, cook, knit, and talk about girly things. I had hair down too my waist and about 12ish grew curves to match.
Grandma understood I was 'born different', and was raising me the way I seemed to fit best.

All that abruptly ended when my father stepped in and decided to change things. Ballet went away as did piano lessons. Sports became my new world (I sucked at them). My curves were fought off with a visit to a sports doctor and testosterone treatments that lasted two years (curves still grew anyways).

I was taught that what I had was an embarrassment and needed to be hidden at all costs. I was born 'deformed' according to my father, and I would just have to find a way of hiding.

That new life prepared by father became my norm and what I lived under up until a few years ago.

Acceptance meant realising that I am still that long haired curvy little girl grandma was raising, and what my father prescribed was living a lie.

"While it is true that genetic and biological factors can play a role in shaping behavior, the environment also has a significant impact."

In my case being born without the normal male appendage was a significant aspect, the curves just compounded the 'biological factors'. The 'environment' around me as prescribed by my father only gave me a sense to 'lie to myself and those near to me'. Quite counter productive aspect of my upbringing.

I could have been like most children born with my condition and surgically 'fixed'. Raised a girl, and I might have never known. But my parents decided to leave things alone and try to mold destiny themselves.

What a tragic story Birdie.  I'm sorry.  I say the same thing to every trauma survivor I meet.  Every infant relies on care providers to survive but sadly, many of us didn't receive what psychologists call "good enough" parenting.  My former wife is a good friend to a woman whose son was born with ambiguous genitalia.  I don't know all the details of what happened but I know how challenging it was for them when their first child arrived with that condition.  But I know they were loving parents and Ben has grown to be a fine young man with one biological brother and one adopted sister.

I'm happy for you that you're coming to peace with who you are... a woman.  Coming to terms with my past as I also come to terms with changes happening in my body is important for me as well... though I remain a man... a feminized man for sure.  I'm content with that.  I'm also very pleased that this side of the website provides room for these conversations.  They surely belong here since the arrival of breasts is not so much a problem to solve, but a life experience to be understood.  How we respond is ultimately up to us, but it would be lovely if whatever we choose to do is done with kindness and care.  There is nothing wrong with accepting what nature provides for us.  I'm ever mindful of a saying my former boss had typed on a card behind his desk... "You can't push a string up hill."  I'm afraid we often do that.  I say "Go with the flow..." 

Quite remarkable that I am pushing 60 before finding out that I'm not a 'freak of nature'. 
There are in fact 1 in 1500 children born with various degrees of being intersex. (Thanks Google)
There is in fact one other member here that falls under the umbrella term of intersex, and I suspect several others if more information was too be known. I'm not alone here at all. 
I am of course gendered AMAB and listed in medical records as intersex, but I don't have the male appendage at all. I have labia and the crease just like all women with an enlarged clitoris (3/4") that functions sort of like a penis in my case, but not the pee hole. 
Other than my small prostate and testes, I really don't have much in the way of 'male' (I can't use urinals). 

School gym lockers were quite horrific. Children can be so mean. Being told I'm in the wrong locker room was a daily event. I have quite the curves as well. 

Not having a family member to talk about things with after grandma was instructed to 'stay out of it' was equally as frustrating. 
My father's go to answer was, "don't start the fights, but finish them". 

I secretly maintained my love of sewing, cooking, knitting, and all the girly things I quite enjoyed after leaving home, but continued the charade. Dating was quite problematic, and I did very little. 
I was quite lucky in finding just enough very curious and later accepting dates. 

Trauma I had assumed was just part of being alive. 

I can honestly say that members here on this site have been the only ones that I would divulge such information to others than very close personal friends. 

[taxmapper]

People forget the time frame that freud was working in. The later 19th-early 20th century was the post industrial discovery age and a large segment of science was still being influenced by the core of such concepts as the Pax Britannia, Scientific racism, social darwinism, Polygenisism, the post enlightenment movement and a host of other aspects, that has a keen focus on a binary white supriemist view of the world. 

Much of what was written was specifically geared tot he idea that science could prove the standing theory of aryan ideal (a highly mis placed and understood aspect), and that the origens of man was actually geared to the concept of whites reaching illuminance and leave the caporal body and become essencially gods. 

The problem with the concept was that it was false. 

Though not actually spoken, the ideal that freud was espoucing int he early works was that the physical characteristics of a person was the marked ability to identify where they stood on the social evolution scale and delve out class status as a result. 

The deeper we go into genetics, study of the DNA/RNA, and the fact that much of the older scientific rejection of anything that fell into "metaphysical" aspects should be the norm.

Now with that being said, the YouTUbe world, tiktok influencers, and Fakebook/Instagram world has a gazillion videos on how "MEN..GROW YOUR PEKS LIKE MINE!"  AND "...GIRLS, DONT TAKE YOUR BELLY LYING DOWN, FLATTEN IT OUT BECAUSE..." 

THAT Is social driving this.  

When the dude on tiktok came out with... "if you want bigger balls..." it was appealing to those who had more money than sense.   
Commercialization is about the bottom dollar and prior to the trans radical things starting during COVID, commercials were focused on Men be REAL MEN, and Women be REAL women. 



But the woke aspects so widely hated took over and unfortunately we have narcissest in the spot light rather than real people.   

It will change eventually. 

[42CSurprise!]

...I am of course gendered AMAB and listed in medical records as intersex, but I don't have the male appendage at all. I have labia and the crease just like all women with an enlarged clitoris (3/4") that functions sort of like a penis in my case, but not the pee hole.
Other than my small prostate and testes, I really don't have much in the way of 'male' (I can't use urinals)...

I'm glad you feel comfortable sharing these things on the board.  I'd read the statistic you note about the presence of ambiguous genitalia.  That is a statistic most folks would rather not face simply because it so complicates our understanding of what it means to be a boy or girl, man or woman.  We all want everything in life to be easily understood... gender bending creates problems for such folks.

I've mentioned my shrinking penis.  I've never been hung like a horse but I've had pretty standard equipment... at least until a few years ago.  As my breasts grew my penis shrunk.  Honestly, it is more comfortable now to urinate sitting down since when I stand up my penis doesn't extend beyond my scrotum, which means it is easy to make a mess.  I have to have a tissue handy to dry myself off.  My libido began its disappearing act before I was aware that my breasts were growing.  As they did and as i explored the topic, I quickly came to understand what was happening.  Diminished testosterone allowed estrogen to prevail.  I wish I had my old facility for pissing, but alas it is not so.  Sorry to be so candid folks but here we are...

[Justagirl💃]

...I am of course gendered AMAB and listed in medical records as intersex, but I don't have the male appendage at all. I have labia and the crease just like all women with an enlarged clitoris (3/4") that functions sort of like a penis in my case, but not the pee hole.
Other than my small prostate and testes, I really don't have much in the way of 'male' (I can't use urinals)...

I'm glad you feel comfortable sharing these things on the board.  I'd read the statistic you note about the presence of ambiguous genitalia.  That is a statistic most folks would rather not face simply because it so complicates our understanding of what it means to be a boy or girl, man or woman.  We all want everything in life to be easily understood... gender bending creates problems for such folks.

I've mentioned my shrinking penis.  I've never been hung like a horse but I've had pretty standard equipment... at least until a few years ago.  As my breasts grew my penis shrunk.  Honestly, it is more comfortable now to urinate sitting down since when I stand up my penis doesn't extend beyond my scrotum, which means it is easy to make a mess.  I have to have a tissue handy to dry myself off.  My libido began its disappearing act before I was aware that my breasts were growing.  As they did and as i explored the topic, I quickly came to understand what was happening.  Diminished testosterone allowed estrogen to prevail.  I wish I had my old facility for pissing, but alas it is not so.  Sorry to be so candid folks but here we are...

I had a urine sample taken by a new nurse that had just started working (she might not had read my records yet). 
She placed the toilet hat under the seat and said, "don't let your ''thingy' dip into the sample because it ruins it." I told her that would not be a problem. 
Helping me transfer to the toilet she commented, "oh my, I see that isn't a problem!"
I responded, "yes ma'am, I don't have one of those." 🤣

[Justagirl💃]

 I have close personal friends that I have known for years that I'm intersex, but never in detail. The topic always got changed as they are quite uncomfortable hearing it. 
They also know I identity as female now, and fully understand. In fact they wondered what took so long. 
Intersex is a broad umbrella term and the boundary of it seems disputed. 
I have found articles stating that a 'micropenis' at birth is enough to fall under the umbrella term. Basically in years past the determination would be made if the child 'had enough to function', and If not surgery was recommended. Those that went under the knife were most definitely sterile afterwards, many that didn't were sterile anyways. 
I know an AFAB that seemed rather normal until puberty. She got a shock when she failed to develope and found out she had a prostate. Her ovaries don't produce hormones properly or eggs. I know her in another forum I frequent. 
With 1/1500 children being intersex, you most likely have met many intersex individuals in life and didn't know it. It's not a topic that comes up while buying a burger at Burger King, and the cashier might just be one of the 1500. 
It's rather common, but it's uncomfortable because the subject seems to get avoided. Much like talking about gynecomastia!

[BodyPos34B]

Candid is perfectly fine when it’s in truth I think. Before my breasts began filling in my libido went out the window as well. I blamed stress and exhaustion and other tasking things at the time and then when my breasts grew I knew it was more as I mentioned before. Along with it came inability to perform regularly and issues in the bedroom with the wife. Where many times even during the act I’d go flaccid. I haven’t experienced any shrinkage I don’t believe but just losing function and morning warning signs as I call them lol. It’s interesting the changes that occur before during and after the fact of onset of gynecomastia. And like you researching things as they showed face made me aware and prepared of what to expect if it and when it happened. 

[Justagirl💃]

It's really nice we can all compare notes here. Many potential aspects are being addressed from several members. 🤗💞

[42CSurprise!]

I've spent much more time exploring the impact of early childhood sexual trauma than I have figuring out the changes in my body.  I mention that simply because in the same way we don't recognize what is happening behind closed doors regarding the differences in physical development, we also don't realize how our psychological development has been impacted by both our environment and life experiences.  We see the outer evidence of addiction and violence but don't often consider the traumatic roots of such behavior.  We all try our best to present ourselves to the world as though we're ordinary people.  You won't find many people flaunting the fact they hit their spouse or sexually abuse their child or steal from their employer or visit an X-rated video arcade for anonymous sex... and it all happens.  This is the only place where I talk about how mesmerized I am by my breasts, about the brassiere I'm wearing.  I certainly haven't told anyone else about my diminishing manhood.  How about the fact I was sexually abused as a boy and that made intimate relationships a minefield I was never able to successfully traverse... hence four marriages all ending in divorce?

I often speak about the residue of trauma that survivors invariably carry... shame, terror, rage and grief.  We feel bad about ourselves, feeling that whatever the problems were that we endured, it was OUR FAULT.  We believed we had to try harder to "be good" or even perfect, lest the bad will return.  Out of these experiences we create a personality that is designed to make us feel safe... though it seldom works.  We're left to make the best of it all and are often left with lives that are cramped, narrowed.  It is all at play for everyone.  Yes, there are healthy people who received good enough parenting and support that they've been able to build a meaningful life.  The rest of us are finding our way best we can, contending with the residue of trauma when life squeezes us in some way and we become triggered.

Contending with breasts growing on our chests is simply one more thing for us to address... which we do here.  But it will always be in the context of our whole life journey... all our successes and disappointment, fantasies and fixations, dreams and terrors.  This is it!

[gotgyne]

I have close personal friends that I have known for years that I'm intersex, but never in detail. The topic always got changed as they are quite uncomfortable hearing it.
They also know I identity as female now, and fully understand. In fact they wondered what took so long.
Intersex is a broad umbrella term and the boundary of it seems disputed.
I have found articles stating that a 'micropenis' at birth is enough to fall under the umbrella term. Basically in years past the determination would be made if the child 'had enough to function', and If not surgery was recommended. Those that went under the knife were most definitely sterile afterwards, many that didn't were sterile anyways.
I know an AFAB that seemed rather normal until puberty. She got a shock when she failed to develope and found out she had a prostate. Her ovaries don't produce hormones properly or eggs. I know her in another forum I frequent.
With 1/1500 children being intersex, you most likely have met many intersex individuals in life and didn't know it. It's not a topic that comes up while buying a burger at Burger King, and the cashier might just be one of the 1500.
It's rather common, but it's uncomfortable because the subject seems to get avoided. Much like talking about gynecomastia!

Even much higher than the number of intersex people in the strict sense is the incidence of boys with a normal penis in size but a hypospadia. The given numbers are 1:250 to 1:300. Nevertheless some doctors count even the first grade of hypospadia into the intersex group, but this is controversial. The second link is the German wiki with better pictures of this condition.
The good thing is that in many countries it is forbidden meanwhile to perform surgery in such cases without the informed consent of the child. If I'd have a hypospadia I'd not like to get surgery, since the complications after the operation are very high and some boys and men have a lot of re-surgeries to fix the problem, even with skin-grafting from the mucosa of the mouth. The only problem is that a boy or a man can't urinate standing unless he uses a kind of funnel as some women do while hiking or at festivals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypospadias

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypospadie

https://interactadvocates.org/faq/#looklike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0jwhywRgoA

[Justagirl💃]

Bingo! 

Traumatic events forge an auto-defence mechanism that many if not all of us apply. It's effectiveness varies from person to person. 

Mine was self-destructive, and I had to accept myself to rebuild. 

[gotgyne]

In terms of "anatomy is destiny", the development of breasts at age 13 is the only reason that introduced me to trying a bra. I had no previous inclination to experiment with anything not on the boys side of the isle.

The development of my breasts started at the onset of menopause with 45 years. I liked it and took some herbal supplements (phytoestrogens) at first for two years and later estrogen to boost the growth. I liked it because I knew even at my early childhood that I didn't want to live as a man.

[Justagirl💃]

In terms of "anatomy is destiny", the development of breasts at age 13 is the only reason that introduced me to trying a bra. I had no previous inclination to experiment with anything not on the boys side of the isle.

The development of my breasts started at the onset of menopause with 45 years. I liked it and took some herbal supplements (phytoestrogens) at first for two years and later estrogen to boost the growth. I liked it because I knew even at my early childhood that I didn't want to live as a man.

Welcome to the team 💞

I knew as a child I enjoyed female conversation and things much better. I never wanted to pretend boy-mode, and I'm surprised I took so long to dismantle it. 
It was an auto-defence mechanism. 

[BodyPos34B]

Bit of a leap and path for anyone kudos on being aware of self and taking charge to enjoy what you felt you were and are to be. 

[gotgyne]

Candid is perfectly fine when it’s in truth I think. Before my breasts began filling in my libido went out the window as well. I blamed stress and exhaustion and other tasking things at the time and then when my breasts grew I knew it was more as I mentioned before. Along with it came inability to perform regularly and issues in the bedroom with the wife. Where many times even during the act I’d go flaccid. I haven’t experienced any shrinkage I don’t believe but just losing function and morning warning signs as I call them lol. It’s interesting the changes that occur before during and after the fact of onset of gynecomastia. And like you researching things as they showed face made me aware and prepared of what to expect if it and when it happened.

With my low dose estrogen, spironolactone for my high blood pressure and 5 mg finasteride per day because of BPH there is mostly nil possibility to maintain a complete erection. If I get one at all which is rare enough. I have been in several forums on male impotence. Many men there were desperate and even tried their own mix of sildenafil, tadalafil and vardenafil. They called it "trimix", which is not only foolish but very dangerous in my opinion. I'd always go the female route and use a strap-on dildo. I know that there are some participants in this forum who don't like such open discussions. My advice for them is "don't read it". Some years ago we had very strict rules in this forum and I confess that I at that time defended them. But I've changed my mind since I noticed that there are many other topics that must be addressed in cases of gynecomastia. It is not useful for someone looking for advice to address only the physical dimension of this topic (some would call breasts in men a problem or even a disease, but I don't) but there are psychological and social implications as well.

[gotgyne]

Thank you to both of you, Dude and Justagirl. Believe me, it was not easy to be honest to myself. There were great expectations, these of my mother, my father, my wife ...