Re: Weird Occurance!!!

[Optimistic]

That's what I am saying man, I went to a doctor and the #1 question I asked is would it come back... His response was if you take drugs yes. But to be 100% honest he has no idea he isn't god and has no idea about your body and what may happen with age your testosterone drops and your estrogen is ever so rising making it easier for the gland to grow.

Then again at 50 does it really matter anymore? I see alot of older people and atleast 80%+ of them have it. But for this doctor who is money motivated to just say it's a drug problem instead of really telling you the truth, that this may just happen naturally no matter what it's amazing to me.

[hypo]

Optimistic,

The fact remains that your theory has no basis in fact and you are missing the bigger picture. LOOK at all the conditions that HAVE been shown to absolutely cause gynecomastia.

Thein lies the answer.

Neverthless I shall adress your theory again.

quote
Over depleting this might have adverse effects that has not been studied as far as I know pertaining to gynecomastia
unquote

Testosterone is NOT significantly affected by sexual activity and biochemically sex and masturbation are identical.

This is shown by the very fact that people engage in sexual activity, masturbation or otherwise in their 20s and 30s, far more so than is typical of boys of 12 years of age.  Yet the overwhelming statistic is that boys of 12 years of age have a FAR higher incidence of developing gynecomastia than men in there 20s or 30s.

quote
Thank you for pointing out the 2 times your estrogen is poling for position against testosterone at the times you are having sex either with yourself or another person frequently. Doesn't sound impossible or is this incorrect?
unquote

You are incorrect.

People engage in more sexual activity in there 20s and 30s, NOT when they are 50+.  Which, again illustrates the fact that the gynecomastia is NOT caused by sexual activity.  The very fact that people engage in less sexual activity when 50+ is because of a build up of estrogens.

When testosterone is biochemically reduced after engaging in sexual activity via Prolactin.  which as I said is temporal and not of significance, is actually proven by the very fact that people want to engage in the very same activity again and again.  Given that Prolactin actually reduces sexual interest, what you are suggesting works entirely the other way about.  

So if Prolactin or indeed any estrogen did build-up as you suggest, the individuals interest in sex would be very low/non existant and they would therefore not continue in there pursuit and it would therefore not be chronic.

quote
Notice puberty the major time people are masturbating and their testosterone is trying to surpass your estrogen
unquote

Like I said.  What you are suggesting, that testosterone is depleted by masturbation, well, it would lead every individual involved in this pursuit to Not wish to be involved in it.  The biochemical trigger to want to do it would be removed.  

Just as it is for people who are 50+.

The theory is a very poor one.  

Its supersitions are in fact the complete reverse of how the male endocrine system actually works, but like I said it is your perogative to believe in it if you want to.

Stretch,

quote
Since the majority of cases occur either during puberty or in men in their 50+, how come doctors don't monitor these groups of people during these two point in a mans life? Is there anything that could be done to prevent gyne from developing in these two groups of people?
unquote

This is because the current thinking is that gynecomastia is only a cosmetic issue.  I think this thinking is VERY short sighted and a opinion that will not stand the test of time.

Reasons for pathology investigations into gynecomastia instead of ignoring the condition as being merely cosmetic;

It would reveal the 10% of all gynecomastia sufferers that have hypogonadism, allow them to be treated and in doing so save the long term implications associated with its untreated long term effects.

Ditto for the 1 in 500 per male birth Klinfelters sufferers.
Ditto for the 1 in 250/300 per birth Haemochromatosis sufferers.
Ditto for the 8% of those that have liver disease

I could go on...

Just a couple more.  16% of all testicular cancer have gynecomastia....so you can instantly diagnose 16% of all testicular cancer sufferers.

The 1% male cancer...breast cancer.  40% of male breats cancer sufferers have gynecomastia....so you can instantly diagnose 40% of all cases of this admitedly rare cancer.

The position of the medical profession, that gynecomastia is simply a cosmetic issue, will in the long term I am sure be an untenable one.

quote
I mean I know for me, when I get this fixed I NEVER want it to come back, even when I'm 50.
unquote

If could be prevented from developing again in later life via anti estrogen medication or the non aromatizable androgen dihydrotestosterone.

Hopefully should the situation ever arise, we will be living in more enlightened times as far as the prescription of these medications are concerned.  This is a very real possibility with many drug companies getting involved in such reseach.

 

[Optimistic]

Great to hear vaio I just started taking zinc tabs last night what dosage do you take? I'm also taking vanadyl sulfate which gives your muscles a solid lean feeling helps shred any fat you may have.

hypo:"Testosterone is NOT significantly affected by sexual activity "

Testes produce 4–7 milligrams (mg) of testosterone daily

140mg a week perhaps 560+ a month 6720+ a year lets figure from age 14 to 18 to be modest here. 26880 mg modestly this doesn't include the fact that someone may have less than ordinary production which just might lead to abnormalities by over depleting the sperm. A theory that no studies have countered.

The #'s may even be lower with people who aren't producing normal levels. Which may show gland growth earlier in puberty than normal.

hypo:"The fact remains that your theory has no basis in fact and you are missing the bigger picture"

The fact remains that your studies can't say anything more than the obvious without extensive studies proving me and a few others with symptoms alike who posted wrong.

The bigger picture would be a study in it's entirety instead of not doing a study on it all. Wouldn't that be the "bigger picture" as you so eloquently put it?

Since nobody has done a study on this we can't say 100% if it has no effects. Your studies shown PRESENT! NO PROOF! that people with slight gyne from puberty might or might not be effected by draining their sperm more than normal.  That may worsen or lighten according to no studies.

Perhaps their body chemistry has a different underlying problem when exposed to draining sperm count more than usual. Like I said before it may surface in gland growth. Hypo unless you documented studies on your own and know this for a fact we must continue to look for the answer by ourselves. This isn't an argument since you do not have the studies this is a group discussion with rational thinking instead of unfinished studies you present.

Since this post has started I figured I might have been the only one. I didn't want to give false hope at all, but I would like to know since I'm not the only one here noticing this.

I'm no expert but even an expert may be novice since this seems to be unexplored territory.

I'm not talking about people who did steroids, since I can't relate to their problem since it was self induced by way of drugs.

Since you cannot give the "Factual" studies that aren't extensive they are as theoretical. I do agree you have studies that build a solid foundation. But! without a study of people with different chemical makeup, masturbating or overly sexual might have effects on this gland. CAN WE AGREE on that? or are you totally biased to these studies that have not covered this direct subject that you may ignore thinking outside "unfinished" studies?  

I do appreciate the findings hypo although the studies you got to see the "BIG PICTURE". I would rather a thorough study showing this scenerio.
I have been training for over 14 years now so seeing that there is very little options for this makes me believe there may be an underlying problem nobody touched on.

Cutting it out is probably the only option for some but others I have a feeling theirs alot of loose fat intertwined with the gland. I brought up electrica muscle stimulation since this is what they do before lypo to loosen fat cells.

With a decent diet and cardio along with perhaps this theory just might make it tolerable without scarring your body making it even worse to take your shirt off than before. But like I said everyone is different some people rather the cuts than the bulges which is totally understandable.

Digging for the truth means thinking outside of the norm of limited studies. Thank you

GOD BLESS

[antigyne]

I think masturbation does affect gynecomastia. Mine developed right around the time that I started. I also will say that I feel that I whack it too often. Most of the guys that have "breasts" in my school often talk about frequent masturbation, so maybe there is truth to this myth. Im going to stop and see what happens. Maybe it will go away......

[hypo]

Look :-/

Lowered testosterone levels or elevated estrogen levels reduce libido.

No individual would want to chronically masturbate or indulge in any significant amount of sexual activity, if they have lowered lowered testosterone or elevated estrogen status, so what your saying just simply does not make any sense.

There is a mountain of evidence to prove this is the case.

Your theory is vacuous and without any merit.

I have low testosterone (hypogonadism).

I know first hand (no pun intended) what a lowered testosterone or an elevated estrogen level (I have had that also) feels like and how it affects the body.  

Not in some theory without factual basis.  

I have had and felt the ramifications of these conditions and let me tell you.  Libido is lowered- FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

That is one of the reasons why I am on testosterone replacement therapy.

Your argument of calling for studies flies in the face of a mountainous volume of symptomatic evidence that proves the very reverse of what you are stating!!!!

It is about as relevant as saying no studies have proven that chronic masturbation doesn't make you go deaf therefore we should study it.  

It is just nonsensical.

I am sorry, but you simply do not know what you are talking about.  I suffer from this condition and know the reality, you do not.  Furthermore you show a very poor understanding of the endocrinology involved.

I have tried to explain it but, but you haven't listened, so there it is :-/

[Optimistic]

Ok last time I'm posting on this because you are obviously ignoring the main part of what I'm saying. I have no idea how you could sit here and try to back up studies that do not EXIST!!! but here it goes one more time.

Unless theres has been full studies of people with slight gyne with various chemical makeups and imbalances you can't sit here and conclude that this is wrong. Merely your opinion that you have taken a defensive stance on. An uneducated view against what I'm saying considering you possess no studies comparing various chemically imbalanced people and masturbation.

This isnt' a contest to see who is right and who is wrong, it's for the truth. If I'm wrong great but there's no studies saying I'm wrong now is there? In fact no studies on what depleting sperm constantly over time can do at all... FACT!!

Underlying problems may arise like I said from constantly depleting the sperm count in "some" individuals that may have abnormalities and different chemical makeups. Resulting in this, can you say I'm wrong? NO not without any "complete" studies. gg

[hypo]

Optimistic,

quote
uneducated view
unquote

I have a very good understand of male endocrinology having studied it for a significant amount of time, given that I actually have the very hormone conditions you are talking about.  

I have read many books on the subject, have access to endocrinologists, have studied the effects in actual blood pathologies, have read all the significant white papers relating to hypogonadism, raised estradiol levels, gynecomastia etc etc.  

I know more about this subject than your average general doctor and even more than some endocrinologists believe it or not.

I also know the day to day reality of living with the condition, because I have it.

I know the side effects!!!!

And I know that lowered testosterone or elevated estrogen causes lowered libido.  Therefore chronic masturbation is not something someone would be engaging in if they suffered from these conditions.

The conditions that I suffer with!!

Through the support networks I am involved with, I also know that a symptom of lowered testosterone/elevated estrogen in all men is lowered libido.  I talk to guys on a daily basis who have these conditions and they all think you are talking rubbish.

Now I have said all this, I have this to say to you.

You have shown a VERY poor understanding of the endocrinology involved, but worse than that you have accused me of being uneducated about the very conditions from which I suffer from :-/

How arrogant and ignorant is that

You are trying to explain how these conditions may affect someone who suffers from them and not listening to me when I am telling you the facts as a sufferer

You are being extremely, ignorant.

But hey why not go and visit a blind person and tell them how blindness effects them and not listen to what they are telling you.  Why not go to a limb aputee support group and tell them what you think the realities are, about having a missing limb, but do not listen to them.

There is no more for me to say your ignorance is staggering



 

[Optimistic]

 hypo:"And I know that lowered testosterone or elevated estrogen causes lowered libido.  Therefore chronic masturbation is not something someone would be engaging in if they suffered from these conditions"

Gyne can naturally occur during the puberty stage while your testosterone is high and your libido is high
gyne is forming in people.  It's growing what's to say it isn't going to grow with lower tesosterone and moderate daily sperm depletion?

And as we all know at the puberty stage the libido is on "HIGH". Perhaps causing constant depletion of sperm causing higher estrogen levels causing gyne. FACT! since it grows at that time the most.

Higher estrogen levels don't seem to effect the libido at that age and naturally. I think this has some solid evidence although your book reading is extensive as you said how could you deny this fact?

I'm glad you educated yourself on the surface of these facts but as you can see you are limited in this discussion since there is no other studies that we can go on other than REAL cases of people seeing gyne shrinking.

hypo:"You have shown a VERY poor understanding of the endocrinology"

My poor "understanding" is there's lack of  "Extensive STUDIES" of gyne I do agree with you there.

hypo:"You are being extremely, ignorant"

Spoken like a true person in denial that there aren't studies proving this is true or false
so I must be ignorant the maturity level has just dropped. Congrats


hypo:"But hey why not go and visit a blind person and tell them how blindness effects
them and not listen to what they are telling you"

Even a blind person needs to be shown the right direction =) I'm glad you "SEE" things my way.

Poor analogy I might add, none of us would be here if we didn't have it in some form.

To end all of this without any proven studies you default in this conversation it's not an argument.
It's a Fact! there is no study that you nor I can find on here or any books written on this but yet your lack luster closing comments are make me realize you are taking this as a personal attack on books and studies you have followed that do not reflect what I'm talking about.

I apologize to you since you are trying to debate without proof but I on the other hand have people posting on here that are noticing a difference. How can you explain that or argue against people noticing differences? What book did you read that covers this?? It doesn't exist does it  :-/.

hypo:I know more about this subject than your average general doctor and even more than some endocrinologists believe it or not.


Like I said many times not everyone is the same so no matter how many books you read theres many people with rarities that are never covered. Not knowing and not admitting to that is pretty sad man.

You may have gyne but you aren't the know all end all authority on gyne cause you read some books comical to say the least.

hypo:"There is no more for me to say your ignorance is staggering"

A mature closing to a failed attempt to rebut without any studies proving this wrong.  Excuse me for being ignorant for opening my eyes to something you obviously are oblivious to. I call this lost hope, maybe some people with slight cases view this differently but I'm ignorant right  .

GOD BLESS

[jc71]

Come on guys. the two of you are very knowledgeable in this area and certainly very passionate about your position - i respect that.  Remember, at heart i'm sure your intent is to help others on this site, but sometimes that intent seems to get blurred by personal jabs and proving each other wrong.  Just seems like the same stuff being said over and over in a different way. Once again I admire the passion the two of you have... if nothing else, it makes for an interesting read.  

[hypo]

by the way we should be using the word acute, not chronic, as chronic relates to time and acute relates to severe;

You continue to state how acute masturbation may cause depleted testosterone or elevated estrogen status and therefore may lead to gynecomastia.  

I am telling you as a sufferer who has had both conditions and suffers from the former (without testosterone replacement therapy), that if you have lowered testosterone or elevated estrogen you have lowered libido, therefore you will not want to masturbate on a constant basis, as the biochemical trigger to want to do that is not present.

The reason studies have no been conducted, is because of the enormous weight of symptomatic evidence worldwide that shows the contary to your theory to be true.

Do you not understand this???

If you want to look at the time in life where testosterone is at its lowest and estrogen is at its highest, look at the elderly.  Do you think that elderly people want to have sex or masturbate all the time???

They do not, as the biochemical trigger is not present.

So what your suggesting just makes no sense.  

If someone was masturbating often and the biochemical reaction occured that you are talking about, they would start to take less and less interested in masturbating and sex in general...it would never become acute.

Do you not understand this???

Also you keep talking about sperm depletion.  

Sperm does not effect testosterone levels, so go away and study harder.

I'll give you an C for effort, but an E for your grade :-/  

If arrogance was graded, i'd give you an A+

Despite the fact I have suffered from testosterone deficiency, you have not believed a word I have had to say about testosterone deficiency...marvellous.

[Optimistic]

hypo:"So what your suggesting just makes no sense"

Perhaps to people with severe cases and other health problems it might not make sense maybe even fog their thinking. Not saying your book reading of gyne and all knowing senses are fogged but maybe in this case you just have little or no experiences as a few of us here posted.

Results in minor cases something you can't relate perhaps this is where we keep butting heads. It's like debating theory vs theory it can keep going in circles. Fact! people have posted  that they are noticing gland reduction in practices of abstaining from sperm depletion.

Like I said before people are all different so what may work with someone else might not work for you. This is what you refuse to admit which I find very odd almost like a bitter person refusing to believe people with minor cases might have a chance of dampening this... Hopefully that isn't the case cause that would be GOD AWFUL!

This is merely lack of studies on the subject. So your only recourse is to stick to what you know and ignore all else that has not been studied. Close minded comes to mind.

GOD BLESS =)

Trying to lead the blind man.

And I got a C?  :-/ I guess it's only fair of me to give you an "i" for INCOMPLETE very fitting of your research.  

[hypo]

quote
in practices of abstaining from sperm depletion.  
unquote

I'll explain.

Sperm production is regulated by Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH).  It is the "messanger" hormone prduced by the pituitary gland to stimulate the testicles (if they are working) to produce Sertoli cells and it is these cells that produce sperm.

It is in simple terms the "fertility hormone".

Testosterone production is regulated by Luteinising Hormone (LH).  It is is the "messenger" hormone between Pituitary gland to stimulate the testicles (if they are working) to produce leydig cells and it is these cells that produce testosterone.

So sperm depletion, does not reduce testosterone, can you accept that now?

quote
Perhaps to people with severe cases and other health problems it might not make sense maybe even fog their thinking. Not saying your book reading of gyne and all knowing senses are fogged but maybe in this case you just have little or no experiences as a few of us here posted.  
unquote

It is difficult to understand the above becauce of your English.  Neverthless, I think you are saying that, "I do not know what I am talking about becauce, I do not have the personal experience that others do".

I am the person who has had both, testosterone deficiency and elevated estrogen status, which along with sperm reduction is at the heart of your "theory".

Now maybe someone who concurs with your "theory", has also had these conditions, but certainly they have not stated as much, so we shall just have to assume that I am the only person who has had these conditions diagnosed and has "experienced" them.

So I am the one who can speak from "experience" about these conditions and there effects, not you, or any of the other people who have commented.

I am telling you from "experience", that when estrogen has built-up in my system and when testosterone has become deficient in my system, that I have had a lowered libido and no interest in sex (until I have had these conditions treated).  

Therefore I have distained from or reduced my sexual activity.

Now, just to explain, as it is not just about me;  

I am in touch with networks of people who have also suffered from these conditions and in almost all cases libido is lowered as is sexual activity.

I have never heard of a single case/individual who has had hypersexuality.  That is to say that knowbody has engaged in acute sexual activities of any nature.  Like I said the conditions remove the biochemical trigger that make you interested in sexual activity.

If someone was masturbating often and the biochemical reaction occured that you are talking about (testosterone deficiency and elevated estrogen), they would start to take less and less interested in masturbating and sex in general...it would never become acute.

So if you can accept that someone who has a depletion of testosterone over time, would not wish to be involved in acute sexual activity, such as masturbation. And if you can accept that someone who has a build-up estrogen over time, would not wish to be involved in acute sexual activity, such as masturbation. And if you can accept that sperm depletion does not affect testosterone production-

Then you have just negated your entire theory!

Or do you not accept these facts?

Do you not accept the mountainous volume of symptomatic evidence collated from across the world over the last one hundred years, that indicates the complete opposite of your "theory" ?

Can you please answer the question that this and my other posts present?

Leading the blind indeed :-/

[Optimistic]

I find it funny that since you can't come up with a study proving this wrong, you resort to english and grammar?

What part of that quote didn't you understand, perhaps you are confused?

Here is a free lesson pay attention.

hypo "It is difficult to understand the above becauce of your English"

Becauace?  "Because" Not two a's and two c's flustered?

hypo:That is to say that knowbody Since when is k and w in nobody? Rewriting the dictionary I see  

knowbody? but my engilsh is bad right?

hypo "It is the "messanger" hormone" hormone prduced

What is messanger? prduced?
Are you trying to tell us your massager produced something?   That is scary I would throw it away.

they would start to take less and less interested in masturbating and sex in general

Perfect example of proper grammar, start to take less and less interested in masturbating? Tell me this was your attempt at humor with this grammar.

Yes your english in this is perfect? I tolerated your pathetic spelling but I guess this is the result of your version of paying attention to detail.

hypo"So I am the one who can speak from "experience" about these conditions and there effects, not you, or any of the other people who have commented"

You have no experience in the gland shrinking due to your own level of health issues perhaps. . Theres no studies proving my theory wrong no matter how much you dance around that fact.

I would think someone who did extensive research would atleast have better spelling and english. I suggest pasting from now on so it doesn't confuse some readers.

Grammatically challenged closed minded forum friend hypo "i" for INCOMPLETE on this subject you present no studies to challenge this particular case.

Your lack of studies is rivaled only by your in comical misspelling and grammatical errors. I take it you ignore details in subjects you take seriously?

GOD BLESS!

[hypo]

Yes there are typos in my posts.  

You will find them in most peoples, particularly in long posts, simple oversights.  However I found it difficult to actually understand what you were saying, because of how fragmented that sentence was.  I wasn’t trying to criticize you, although it may have came across that way.  

You said quote
Perhaps to people with severe cases and other health problems it might not make sense maybe even fog their thinking. Not saying your book reading of gyne and all knowing senses are fogged but maybe in this case you just have little or no experiences as a few of us here posted.
unquote

I genuinely found it difficult to understand what you were actually saying above, which is why I re-wrote what I thought you were saying to check with you….I’ll quote myself.

quote
It is difficult to understand the above becauce of your English.  Neverthless, I think you are saying that, "I do not know what I am talking about becauce, I do not have the personal experience that others do".
unquote

I only made one reference and I was explaining in case I misunderstood what you were saying.  Is that not understandable?  

The real issue is that you have spent almost your entire post focusing on a few lines, as opposed to the issue involved and the breadth of information that I posted.

You have completely failed to address ANY of the questions that I asked, because you have absolutely no grasp of the endocrinology involved. This is why you spent most of your time in your last post attacking what you saw as my criticism of your English.  

The endocrinology is the real issue here, so I say again;

Answer the question that my post raised!

For your convenience, Ive pasted them below with additional info for the purposes of retaining the context.

See Below

I am in touch with networks of people who have also suffered from these conditions and in almost all cases libido is lowered as is sexual activity.  

I have never heard of a single case/individual who has had hypersexuality.  That is to say that knowbody has engaged in acute sexual activities of any nature.  Like I said the conditions remove the biochemical trigger that make you interested in sexual activity.

If someone was masturbating often and the biochemical reaction occured that you are talking about (testosterone deficiency and elevated estrogen), they would start to take less and less interested in masturbating and sex in general...it would never become acute.  

So if you can accept that someone who has a depletion of testosterone over time, would not wish to be involved in acute sexual activity, such as masturbation. And if you can accept that someone who has a build-up estrogen over time, would not wish to be involved in acute sexual activity, such as masturbation. And if you can accept that sperm depletion does not affect testosterone production-

Then you have just negated your entire theory!

Or do you not accept these facts?

Do you not accept the mountainous volume of symptomatic evidence collated from across the world over the last one hundred years, that indicates the complete opposite of your "theory" ?

Can you please answer the questions?

If you do not accepted the above, can you please give a detailed and reasoned explanation as to why?

The fact that you are telling the only person here who has testosterone deficiency and has had elevated estrogen , how testosterone deficieny and elevated estrogen may effect an individual- without accepting what the only individual here who has "experience" in living with these these conditions has to say about them, not accepting what the only person here who "knows the reality of there day to day effects", is saying.   I am sorry to say that is breathtakingly arrogant and ignorant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More facts

A) I am backed by every endocrinologist in the word in dismissing your theory.

B) I am backed by every gynecomastia paper concerning its aetiology every written.

C) I am backed by every paper ever written concerning the aetiology of hypogonadism (testosterone deficiency)

D) I am backed by over 100 years of symptomatic patient based evidence form across the world, showing the complete opposite of your theory concerning hypogonadism (ALL THE PATIENTS).

E) I am backed by every single fertility clinic in the world and every single expert in this field, in that masturbation, does not cause permanent damage testosterone or sperm production.

And you know what, last of all on a subjective level.

I know what it feels like first hand to have these conditions, something that you can have no idea of!!!!

And I am telling you from that knowledge...you are wrong!!!

Are you going to try and continue to push your  "theory" on the wafer thin absurdity, "there have been no studies to prove" in the face of ALL the evidence of a symptomatic nature that does indeed prove you factually wrong?

Because if they you are, I should shock you by telling you;

(Sarcasm mode started)

There have been no studies to prove that masturbation does affect soalar eclipses.

There has been no studies to prove that masturbation does cause avalanches.

In fact there have been no studies to prove that solar eclipses or avalanches do not cause low testosterone as opposed to masturbation.....shall we start the studies?

(Sacarsm mode ended)

Go back answer the legitimate questions that I have put to you, giving detailed and reasoned explanations.


 

[AbNormal]

I think the point is not that chronic masturbation causes permanent damage to testosterone production, but that because some of us have been masturbating nonstop basically, we have been keeping our testosterone levels low in general.

Personally, I masturbated in the past as much as 3 times a day, every day.  It's kind of embarassing to say, but it's true.  Can you honestly say that this wouldn't reduce testosterone levels in people?  Especially if their gonads are already weakened or not producing to their fullest ability?

It's just like when you're sick.. you need to rest for awhile to get back to full health.  You can't go full bore and work your butt of while your sick, or you'll stay sick.  Same kind of deal.

The fact that like 3-4 people have tried cutting back and have found that they have good results, even the fact that they have any results, points to this being a factor.