Transgender But Not Transitioning

[Findingmyself]

No need to waste breath trying to calm the situation, it is calm. I simply stated a remark that I had thought of starting a new topic based on the idea of being content being a male with breasts for those who don't agree with the way this thread is going. And p.r.1974 stated that the whole idea of forums is open opinions instead of separation so I stated my opinion

So you just joined OUR forum to stur up shit! Yea I KNOW your kind of chirstian! Will we be burning those you don't like at the stake? You need to. Never tell a soul that you are a chirstian again, you bring shame to Chirst! I studied for 4 years and I am an ordained minister!

Yes sir I know you much better than you know yourself!

No sir I was member for a while and left when it took a turn south. Then I missed the support for typical men suffering with breast growth so joined again to see this blasphemy.

You say you know me better than I know myself? Doubt so. Congrats on studying for 4 years and becoming a minister. May God direct you. But standing in a garage doesn't make you a car either. I've been "studying" at church for 27 years and have been saved for 22 of those years. It doesn't change the fact of right vs right and wrong vs wrong. I believe I've made myself clear on my thoughts so far as the Bible states (which you should be familiar with having studied for 4 years and being a minister and all) that in my opinion it is a sin to crossdress and try to humanly change ones sex. Referring to the 139th Psalm we are beautifully and wonderfully made and no reason to say we were born in the wrong body. As per 1st Corinthians 6:9-10 those who practice homosexuality have no part in heaven which would include one who changes gender say from male to female and dates the new opposite sex, males. They are still male as they were made beautifully and wonderfully and are now tied with one of the same gender. The subject of crossdressing is talked about in deuteronomy which i believe is more of a man trying to look like a woman or vice versa.

So go ahead preacher. Tell me to not proclaim my faith, because that's what you're called to do is stop those that follow the Word, right?

You came back to this group to cause trouble and nothing more!

So let me explain how I see you. GO darn YOURSELF!
That is what you came here for so you got it! Are you happy now you self-righteous darn!

No I'm not happy because I didn't come back to cause trouble. I came back because I honest th God missed the support here. But it seems to have turned into a big trans-fest and when I am told to state my opinion and I do such, it starts a giant war. Then a "minister" comes up and tells me to never tell a soul again that I am a Christian and that I am a shame to Christ himself because I stand up for what he preached.... easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to get to heaven I suppose. 

[Charli 💕]

No need to waste breath trying to calm the situation, it is calm. I simply stated a remark that I had thought of starting a new topic based on the idea of being content being a male with breasts for those who don't agree with the way this thread is going. And p.r.1974 stated that the whole idea of forums is open opinions instead of separation so I stated my opinion

So you just joined OUR forum to stur up shit! Yea I KNOW your kind of chirstian! Will we be burning those you don't like at the stake? You need to. Never tell a soul that you are a chirstian again, you bring shame to Chirst! I studied for 4 years and I am an ordained minister!

Yes sir I know you much better than you know yourself!

No sir I was member for a while and left when it took a turn south. Then I missed the support for typical men suffering with breast growth so joined again to see this blasphemy.

You say you know me better than I know myself? Doubt so. Congrats on studying for 4 years and becoming a minister. May God direct you. But standing in a garage doesn't make you a car either. I've been "studying" at church for 27 years and have been saved for 22 of those years. It doesn't change the fact of right vs right and wrong vs wrong. I believe I've made myself clear on my thoughts so far as the Bible states (which you should be familiar with having studied for 4 years and being a minister and all) that in my opinion it is a sin to crossdress and try to humanly change ones sex. Referring to the 139th Psalm we are beautifully and wonderfully made and no reason to say we were born in the wrong body. As per 1st Corinthians 6:9-10 those who practice homosexuality have no part in heaven which would include one who changes gender say from male to female and dates the new opposite sex, males. They are still male as they were made beautifully and wonderfully and are now tied with one of the same gender. The subject of crossdressing is talked about in deuteronomy which i believe is more of a man trying to look like a woman or vice versa.

So go ahead preacher. Tell me to not proclaim my faith, because that's what you're called to do is stop those that follow the Word, right?

You came back to this group to cause trouble and nothing more!

So let me explain how I see you. GO FU@K YOURSELF!
That is what you came here for so you got it! Are you happy now you self-righteous FU@K!

You are evil a d I am done with you tonight!

[Findingmyself]

No need to waste breath trying to calm the situation, it is calm. I simply stated a remark that I had thought of starting a new topic based on the idea of being content being a male with breasts for those who don't agree with the way this thread is going. And p.r.1974 stated that the whole idea of forums is open opinions instead of separation so I stated my opinion

So you just joined OUR forum to stur up shit! Yea I KNOW your kind of chirstian! Will we be burning those you don't like at the stake? You need to. Never tell a soul that you are a chirstian again, you bring shame to Chirst! I studied for 4 years and I am an ordained minister!

Yes sir I know you much better than you know yourself!

No sir I was member for a while and left when it took a turn south. Then I missed the support for typical men suffering with breast growth so joined again to see this blasphemy.

You say you know me better than I know myself? Doubt so. Congrats on studying for 4 years and becoming a minister. May God direct you. But standing in a garage doesn't make you a car either. I've been "studying" at church for 27 years and have been saved for 22 of those years. It doesn't change the fact of right vs right and wrong vs wrong. I believe I've made myself clear on my thoughts so far as the Bible states (which you should be familiar with having studied for 4 years and being a minister and all) that in my opinion it is a sin to crossdress and try to humanly change ones sex. Referring to the 139th Psalm we are beautifully and wonderfully made and no reason to say we were born in the wrong body. As per 1st Corinthians 6:9-10 those who practice homosexuality have no part in heaven which would include one who changes gender say from male to female and dates the new opposite sex, males. They are still male as they were made beautifully and wonderfully and are now tied with one of the same gender. The subject of crossdressing is talked about in deuteronomy which i believe is more of a man trying to look like a woman or vice versa.

So go ahead preacher. Tell me to not proclaim my faith, because that's what you're called to do is stop those that follow the Word, right?

You came back to this group to cause trouble and nothing more!

So let me explain how I see you. GO FU@K YOURSELF!
That is what you came here for so you got it! Are you happy now you self-righteous FU@K!

You are evil a d I am done with you tonight!

Sounds like a good minister to me. Please pray tell the church you preach at so I can give it a listen??? I challenge you Minister Charlie to give me biblical evidence to contradict my thinking. After all, you do have  4 years of study under your belt. 

[Findingmyself]

At this point, yes I have to admit I am poking and proving and being a bully but only since its been asked of me and has nothing to do with the original point of this said forum...

[Findingmyself]

I really do apologize everyone. As I had mentioned am of a conservative view which made me leave initially but I missed the community so I came back. Then I mentioned creating a new topic and this $hit happened. As has obviously been seen i have my views and stick by them. I may go ahead and create said post so those of my viewing can read and not feel pressured into a view they don't believe in. You may call me a bully, but I am only sticking up for what I believe in the same as y'all do for your beliefs. To question me is one thing, to tell me to not profess Christ because I believe in the Bible is another story....

[brock123]

You're good. Try to ignore that feedback which makes you feel otherwise. The world is an angry and polarized place right now, we simply have to endure that and push through it. You need to be you and not allow yourself to be judged by others that don't happen to subscribe to your worldview? I think just about everyone here can agree on that?

Of course, there are different walks of life and opinions represented here, the entire concept of Gynecomastia flies in the face of traditional human norms? Why it happens to us can be scientifically explained at this point, but science does not provide much help with religion. Religion is based (I mean no offense here) on a lack of *generally accepted* scientific understanding of any given phenomena, and intends to provide community/solace to that end, yes? What is so wrong with that?

I'm not on board with any religious explanations here, but I both accept and will try to understand your reasoning to that end as best I can and promise to be as open minded as I am able to be.

Everyone out here is a man with "boobs" to deal with on some level, I'm not sure how religion factors into it or how it became contentious? This is a physical thing, it's not an emotional/religious thing?

[Justagirl💃]

I would normally not argue religious points with other members, but the argument has already been opened.
I can say that in "my" case my parents found understanding in the Talmud, a book written during the Babylonian exile (very old ancient text).
It is one of the authoritative books in Judaism.

This article explains is best without me having to research everything all over again.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-eight-genders-in-the-talmud/

To address articles of clothing, all references to clothing during biblical times regards male & female clothing to be of the same design. In a nutshell, they all wore layers and robes. The headscarf and veil being the only articles that were not worn my men, and women that used it to completely cover their faced were prostitutes. Fringes on robes were exclusively for males. 
So a reference to not wearing women's clothing would be based off either "ownership" (cross contamination of bodily fluids) and/or the headscarf and veil. Clothes between sexes otherwise were relatively the same. Ancient tomb paintings of the Hebrew slaves in Egypt confirm this.
Men were also ordered too wear "fringes" as well. So the pretty fringes on the corners of the garments were and still are today "male attire". 

Again, this is just my view as well as my parents view.
When the child was born (me) not quite normal, my parents needed answers.

I'm not asking to change anyone's mind about things, but simply pointing out where I have stood.

[Justagirl💃]

I did my best to keep my conversation relative to gynecomastia, but the room decided to go pink anyway. It seems to be the natural progression of the room being that we are all under the influence of the hormonal stew.

I understand some will have a problem with it, and that's okay too. We are all different, and come from varying backgrounds. 

We can choose to ignore what we believe doesn't pertain to us to be cordial about it, or other alternatives. 

Lashing out against each other resolves nothing. 

It is what it is 😉

[HeldUp]

To summarize:

• The OP posted a subject, putting out there the way they see themselves and how their gynecomastia has played a part in that
• People have a conversation in and around that topic that goes "pink"
• A "former member" returns and posts effectively "this is why I left!" and state they "could have" created a vindictive alternative thread--but didn't!
• Back-and-forth happens and that same person calls out people in the thread as literal sinners; Person wonders why they are getting flack, for "just stating their faith"
• Pot is effectively stirred

"Finding", there were better ways to have a conversation you want to engage in. You could have, say, not posted anything in a thread you find counter to your ideals (religion non-withstanding) and created a thread about something you would like to discuss. Instead you suggest creating a "parody" thread, use needling language, and then go "biblical". FYI, just as others posting about their transition or feeling feminine won't turn you femme, your posts about how Christian conservative you are and how behaviors are "sins" won't turn anyone into a Christian.

So let's shelve it. If you find the conversations not to your liking you can do the Christian thing and take a higher road. I have no idea what you do want to discuss, other than "support", because you haven't stated anything except what you DON'T want to discuss. Maybe, start a thread on what that support you're looking for means.

[blad]

I am going to guess that the world has never been tolerant of other people’s views, it is just more visible in the electronic age.

If god did not want us to wear bras then why did he give us boobs?

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that I am best served by wearing a bra. I have accepted that I am a guy who grew breasts and wearing a bra is my best option for comfort and control and has even helped me appreciate gods gifts to me. Perhaps having breasts is gods way of testing me?

Obviously others here are tested with further issues of excessive estrogen as part of the package. 

I am reasonably well versed in the bible and Christianity being a church member most of my life. Versed enough to know god gives different people different challenges. Although the bible is the absolute truth, ( if you are a Christian at any rate), it is a very complex document and difficult to understand how it applies to all situations in life. If someone thinks they have it all figured out they are probably wrong.

[Gotboobs]

I have had a woman like body all my life. Small hands,feet, wrists and head. Small boned. 
Large hips and a healthy chest. Always had long hair to make my head look bigger, in my eyes anyway. And small down below.
Growing up I was very self conscious about my body to say the least. My 5 sisters and mother and father were very supportive of me. They always said that we are made in gods image, and that god does not make mistakes. He makes us exactly how he wanted us.
My wife of 43 years said the same thing shortly after we met. Even today with my breast growth she still says that. This is the way god intended for me to be. Much more feminine looking then masculine. My mother and sisters all are well endowed top and bottom with curvy hourglass figures. So the genes were probably stacked against me. God gave me this body and god gave me a very accepting wife and family. So I truly believe we are made in his image.

[Justagirl💃]

Very well said 👍

[taxmapper]

one thing I have been discovering is that not everything falls into the "template' that should put someone into one camp or another.

Case in point are such items as harem pants/ shirts various tunics etc.

Just got off of amzonia a pair of harem pants that are uber cool for summer use.


There are many other articles of clothing that are unisex and IMO perfictly acceptable.

Its just the "template" created that needs to be addressed.

[Justagirl💃]

one thing I have been discovering is that not everything falls into the "template' that should put someone into one camp or another.

Case in point are such items as harem pants/ shirts various tunics etc.

Just got off of amzonia a pair of harem pants that are uber cool for summer use.


There are many other articles of clothing that are unisex and IMO perfictly acceptable.

Its just the "template" created that needs to be addressed.

90% of my attire is androgynous, so unless you knew I had purchased the items at Torrid, they don't scream female.
They are clothes all off the women's rack but anyone could wear them without a second look from anyone.
In my area of the country, men and women dress much the same on "most" days with of course a few exceptions.
Differences in dress between the average female and male at the mall is minor.
I would say color choices and fit are the main difference between most.
Clothes are just clothes, and it's really "ownership" that makes the difference. The "Lt. Blue tshirt" might look like not much on him, but look very feminine on her as she fills it out.
It's not really what you wear, but how you wear it on the androgynous clothes.
I'll be addressed as "ma'am" in my men's polo shirts as well because of how I wear them..

In my case I tend to wear a size smaller than the size I could wear, this of course accents my chest.
I have about three men's polo shirts that do that just as well as the clothes I bought at Torrid.

Body language is also a dead give away. My standard shoulder length hair, tanks, and shorts are not "girly" at all until the body language comes into play. How you sit, and move your arms, etc...

Now my other "special occasions" selection is another story. 🙄

[42CSurprise!]

So I go away for a few weeks and all hell breaks loose!  

I understand that this conversation could be disturbing to anyone fixated on holding safe a very narrow definition of masculinity.  Developing breasts would naturally be threatening... so one needs to keep a tight control on how it is interpreted.  Acknowledging that breasts happen because the so-called feminine hormone estrogen has made itself known in our bodies is too much.  Even more disturbing is the idea that the presence of breasts produced by said hormone mark a movement along a gender continuum toward the feminine side.  According to the argument, God only made TWO humans... one perfectly male, the other perfectly female.  One needs extremely large AND opaque blinders to see the world that way.  JaG tells his/her story to make the point.  One would assume that since God is all knowing and all powerful that what exists is here because "he" wishes it to be so... including everyone who abides on the gender continuum.

Relax everyone.  No one here is advocating anything.  I do however, wish to be honest in what I say and I believe the opening of this thread is accurate.  Estrogen and testosterone exist in every human body in a balance that is unique to each person.  There is no one size fits all... not even TWO sizes that fit all.  This website certainly doesn't attract flat chested men or women regardless of what their chests look life.  We don't have fleshy chests because we are sinners.  We have them because we have more estrogen in our hormonal stew.  We are here to talk about how we each respond to the reality our body has become feminized by the estrogen that produces breasts we call our own.  Many of us choose to avail ourselves of a garment created for women whose breasts need support.  Some do that for comfort while others do that for play in the same way some men will wear baseball caps and others will wear a fedora.  They both shade the face from the sun but they also are an expression of how we want to present ourselves in the world.

Have fun everyone.  There will always be frightened people who find comfort in their righteousness.  Yes, they have over history caused great pain but all they really can do on a forum like this is wail and gnash their teeth.